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Author | Topic: Are Atheists Mentally Ill | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
The quote is simply saying that your happiness due to your belief doesn't imply that God exists. I haven't taken anything in this thread to be an argument or implication for the existence of deities.
2. A whole bunch of people who are happy and say that they are happier because of God... doesn't make God exist. I don't see this addressed in the quote at all. The quote just says that it can be dangerous to believe in things just because they make you happy, and that this caution extends to religious beliefs.Love your enemies!
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined:
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The main reason I'm skeptical of that claim is because so many atheists are also liberals, and it doesn't make sense that people who work hard, take risks, and succeed with money would favor a political party that wants to take away the fruits of their labors and redistribute it to others. And yes, I have evidence that atheists tend to be liberal; As a well educated, financially secure person who as worked hard all their life I voted liberal because I not everyone has had the advantages and luck I have had. Voting for a position where the less fortunate are support by some of my wages seems to make perfect sense to me. It's the right thing to do. Edited by Larni, : No reason given.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Jon Inactive Member |
In many, many cases, the fulfillment of a value causes extreme discomfort and sometimes even misery. What floats the boat is what makes you happy.Love your enemies!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Catholic Scientist writes: There is no other purpose to life.There's the question of what is the purpose of this collection of self-replicating organic material, and then there's the question of what is the purpose of your existence as an individual. He asked the latter and you answered the former. It's the same answer. If the question is instead "how can I feel content with my life?" I'd give a slightly different answer (although it would contain a large element of replicating life - or at least going through the motions.) The reason religion exists at all, is the egotistical opinion that life has a puropse beyond itself - it doesn't. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Jon Inactive Member |
It's the right thing to do. And it makes you happy. Love your enemies!
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Jon writes: The quote just says that it can be dangerous to believe in things just because they make you happy, and that this caution extends to religious beliefs. Yes, that's technically true. But just wrong.The context of the quote is that it is a rebuttal of an argument: Believer -> God exists. That's why Christians are happier than atheists... it's proof that God exists!George Bernard Shaw -> The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. Notice how the quote says "...no more to the point...""The point" being discussed is whether or not God exists.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
And you've given an example I can counter: I value knowledge and truth over happiness.
I'm not sure I understand this. For me, seeking knowledge and truth are what make me happy.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
And it makes you happy. Not so. It annoys me (I'm naturally selfish) but I do it because it's the right thing to do and makes sense. (Damn moochers). Edited by Larni, : No reason given.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Jon writes: Larni writes: It's the right thing to do. And it makes you happy. Just because it makes you happy... or could make someone else happy doesn't mean it does. You're in the "there's no such thing as an unselfish good-deed" fallacy. Just because you can think of a reason why an action could have been selfish... doesn't mean that is the reason why the action was taken. Therefore, the action could have been taken for unselfish reasons. In the same vein... Just because you can think of a reason why someone's action might make them happy... doesn't mean that is the reason why the action was taken. Therefore, the action could have been taken for non-happy reasons. Or: Just because someone gains some amount of happiness following their purpose to life... doesn't mean that their purpose to life definitely is to gain happiness.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
I'm not sure I understand this. For me, seeking knowledge and truth are what make me happy. And yet you might make life choices that are unarguably less "happy" in the pursuit of fulfilling that ultimate goal. The fuzzy definition of "happiness" is part of what I'm trying to point out. In one sense a person seeking "happiness" is a hedonist trying to maximize pleasure and enjoyment in life. In another sense "happiness" can be the contentment of having fulfilled a value, even though the process was not enjoyable. But see my other earlier response - there are choices some people make in life that are virtually guaranteed to result in misery and even death for the individual, yet they choose those paths over happier options because there is something else they value more than their own happiness. The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings
Nihil supernum
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3
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What floats the boat is what makes you happy. You're using a definition of "happy" that encompasses literally everything. If prison, torture, and death are encompassed in your definition of "happy," then I contend that your usage makes the word utterly meaningless. The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings
Nihil supernum
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It's the same answer. Not at all. Plenty of people's lives have had a purpose that had nothing to do with just reproducing.
The reason religion exists at all, is the egotistical opinion that life has a puropse beyond itself - it doesn't. Our lives can, in fact, have a purpose.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3
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Our lives can, in fact, have a purpose. And the short resolution to that dichotomy is that nature doesn't care - but we do.The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings
Nihil supernum
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Jon Inactive Member |
Jon writes: The quote just says that it can be dangerous to believe in things just because they make you happy, and that this caution extends to religious beliefs. Yes, that's technically true. But just wrong.The context of the quote is that it is a rebuttal of an argument: Believer -> God exists. That's why Christians are happier than atheists... it's proof that God exists!George Bernard Shaw -> The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. Notice how the quote says "...no more to the point...""The point" being discussed is whether or not God exists. Then what does the quote have to do with this thread? Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
I think it's clear that Tangle was being an equivocating wise ass.
No need to dwell on his nonsense.Love your enemies!
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