Summations Only

Your first statement doesn't follow from the second. A Y-chromosome going to fixation does not mean an extreme bottleneck. Characteristics that have originally occurred in one individual are always going to fixation, bottlenecks or no bottlenecks.It is your Noah story that requires an extreme (and very recent) bottleneck, and makes it necessary that Noah is the Y ancestor. Apart from the evidence that our mutation rate is more than an order of magnitude too low for the Noah story to be true, don't you remember me pointing you to some papers on diversity in elephants/mammoths, and asking you how big a herd you expected there to be on the ark? Elephant divergence including African speciation.Highly divergent sub-species in AsiaAnd it looks like you'll need a whole herd of giraffe on the Ark, as well. It's filling up fast!Edited by bluegenes, : Put in elephant links.Edited by bluegenes, : Added the giraffe paper. I'll check out some other big, hungry animals!

It also requires that the most recent common female ancestor must have been only 4500 years ago and come from a very small pool.Noah must be the Y ancestor and there can be no more than 4 X ancestors just 4500 years ago.

No to the first part. The sons have three wives, and they could be from three different mitochondrial haplogroups. But yes, it's a very small pool, to put it mildly. We would all look pretty much like modern Palestinians if the story were true, but we would be even more homogeneous than they are with such a small founder effect.

What it means is that there are three different possible female ancestors other than Noahs wife.If there was a single most recent common female ancestor it would have to be even more recent than 4500 years ago.

Noah's wife isn't a potential "mitochondrial eve", if that's what you mean, because she can't pass her mtDNA on to her sons. If you mean a mtDNA "Eve", no. It could be more recent if a single version of the mtDNA goes to fixation. For example, that would happen immediately if two of the three young couples who survived the flood produced only boys, and no daughters, so that all the surviving females then would have the mtDNA of one of the three wives, and there's nothing else.But if no single mtDNA goes to fixation after that point, then the mtDNA "Eve" would be further back. She would be the first women from whom all three of Noah's son's wives descended via direct maternal ancestry.

This is ridiculous, and is an example of why any evidence based discussion with you is pointless.Nobody is forgetting that animals were able to adapt quickly in hot, low oxygen conditions because such hasn't been established as a fact to forget. (And apparently adapt must mean something different from evolve) And when you talk about "rapidly adapting into subspecies after admitting to knowing next to nothing at all about biology, should we even take your arguments seriously? Which major predator did the salt-water crocodile evolve (er adapt) into?Apparently what makes sense to you is to make up any nonsense explanation however non Biblical, and then to insist that someone else has to demonstrate your made up stuff to be wrong using evidence. It is sufficient that humans or any other single animal doesn't show any bottleneck.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

What would have happened is that most mammal species would have been found in the Arabian plate/Egypt/Ethiopia region. But more likely Africa , because that is where the larger populations would have commenced.I showed evidence that Africa for a wider than normal fossil mammal representation in Egypt. I thought that made my point all on its own? Earliest mammal diversity is concentrated in Africa.Department of Anatomical Sciences | Renaissance School of Medicine at Stony Brook University (from Post 456)
In collaboration with Duke University and the Egyptian Geological Museum, vertebrate paleontological field research is currently focused on the recovery of late Eocene and early Oligocene mammals and other vertebrates from fossil localities in the Birket Qarun, Qasr el-Sagha, and Jebel Qatrani Formations in the Fayum Depression of northern Egypt (see image below). The continental sediments in this area document at least 8 million years of terrestrial mammalian evolution, and have produced the most complete remains of Eocene-Oligocene anthropoid primates, hystricognathous rodents, hyracoids (hyraxes or dassies), proboscideans (elephants), embrithopods (extinct horned relatives of elephants and sea cows), macroscelideans (sengis or elephant-shrews), tenrecoids, creodonts, and anthracotheriid artiodactyls. A number of other mammalian groups, such as strepsirrhine primates, bats, ptolemaiids, and marsupials have also been recovered from the Fayum localities.Note the above list even includes African marsupials in the late Eocene.The oldest relatives of New World monkeys are found in Africa:
Why Anthropology? | Anthropology | Mesa Community College
Most interesting from the standpoint of human evolution is the appearance of two groups of diminutive higher primates, anthropoids, in the fossil record of the Fayum. One of these groups has the three premolars characteristic of the New World monkeys, a trait that is today no longer found among the primates of the Old World. This group, known as the parapithecids, probably accounts for the origin of the New World monkeysOther evidence:
All cats originate from the Middle East
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...0628-cat-ancestor.htmlCertain Antelope originate in Africa
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2011/02/110216185404.htmMore original mammal species in Egypt:
Fossils: The Other Ancient EgyptEdited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

Population bottleneck - Wikipedia
A population bottleneck is a sharp reduction in size of a population due to environmental stochastic events (such as earthquakes, floods, fires, or droughts) or human activitiesIt is the same thing. An earlier bottleneck of females is detected (let's call her Eve), followed by a later bottleneck of males (Noah)http://home.kpn.nl/b1beukema/mitoeve.html
On the other hand, the most recent common ancestor to father an unbroken line of males, "Y-chromosome Adam," appears to have lived only about half as long ago as Eve. This means that another bottleneck, besides the one surrounding Eve, affected the human lineage after her. The fact that the bottleneck in Adam's day appears not to have produced also a matrilineal ancestor of all living humans - a more recent Eve, in other words - illustrates that the branching and disappearance of lineages depends on chance (alternatively, male lineages may dwindle faster, perhaps due to a history of polygamy, which would have allowed only a proportion of males to produce offspring). Some researchers say evidence of this second bottleneck exists also in the mitochondrial DNA data. It is also possible that the mismatched dates of Eve and Adam may illustrate the imperfectness of the molecular clock technique, which continues to undergo revisions. That's according to evolutionary timeframes. Bison and cheetahs show a recent bottleneck of the last few hundred years. Other mammals show thousands of years of diversity, reflected in germline mutations within species. This is consistent with biblical timelines. If you claim no bottleneck, please provide evidence. The first to make a claim must post their evidence.We would expect 28 (14 x 2) or less alleles in each position for each species on the ark (large mammals), and since then germline mutations would have increased the number of alleles, please provide evidence for anything to the contrary.Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

This would be the Hill Ararat then I suppose. Do cows like snow? I really hope so. Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

As iv said coming from one man and bottlenecking inst the same thing your wiki quote agrees with me. One is a single individual responsible for all later ofspring of the species. Say if ghengis khans ofspring continue doing their grate work of making babies at the same pace in 80 000 years everyone will be descendant from Genghis khan. that does not meen every other lineage will die out they will just merge as a descendant of ghengis kahn sleeps with your daughter the child will be a descendant of you and of Genghis Kahn. Or it could just be that we underwent a verry long bottleneck Population bottleneck - Wikipedia
Same wiki site Dint say there was no bottleneck i just said .... ah forget it you know what i said. Ok why would you expect that?And how many Large mamals would you fit on the ark? and the amount of food you would need to feed them please.

I make no claims either way. I have not yet seen anything in DNA analysis that contradicts the ark hypothesis. If you have any evidence that contradicts the ark hypothesis, kindly post it. Could you kindly find that evidence and post it to prove your point.

I place the flood at the P-T boundary before the later mountain building tectonic events. The subsequent elevation of the "hills of Ararat" occurred later when the Arabian plate crashed into the Eurasian plate.

Ok I get you. What aspect of the human genome do you think contradicts a bottleneck when a "mitochondrial Adam" possibly could be a reflection of a bottleneck. Fair enough, but all the evidence points to a possible bottleneck. What aspect of the human genome do you think disproves a bottleneck 4500 years ago? 7 pairs of each animal on the ark, 14 animals. Each animal has two alleles in each gene location, this makes 28 alleles. Since then we have germline mutations, adding to the number of alleles. Most mammals were small back then. Most mammals show recent speciation. So the number and size of mammal species was possibly less than today. No idea of the amount of food. Have you got any ideas on that?Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

Horses and camels both originated in North America.

And their ancestors?Like I said, there has been speciation since, and fossilisation is a rare process, so I feel that if the largest concentration of earliest mammal species is in East Africa, this strengthens my point. I am expecting some anomalies, mainly due to speciation in regions separated from Africa.