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Author | Topic: Is Calvinism a form of Gnostic Christianity? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
The practical utility of Calvinism is in reminding us of God's sovereignty so that we don't take any credit for salvation, and in reassuring us that we are indeed saved. I don't hold to unconditional election and yet, I don't have a problem with these issues, I am still "reminded" of them. ??? I don't think God manipulates every action that happens, but I don't see how that diminishes his sovereignty.
The gospel is not "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your lift" which is total Arminianism. What? What is the gospel, then???
For one thing we don't know whom God loves because that would be the same as knowing who is elect and who isn't which we don't know. God ONLY loves the elect??
The gospel is Jesus came to seek and to save the lost, died for the sins of those who believe on Him, offers salvation to all. But he only loves those who are the elect. You just said that!! And he only died for those who believe. So if those statements are true (which they most certainly are not) then he does NOT offer salvation to ALL. This just gets worse and worse . I wish you could actually step back and see what you are saying. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
I think there is a hint to that if we think about the really bad people which is why I brought that up. Why are there really bad people? Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The ultimate answer to you is that Calvin is Biblical so that criticizing him is criticizing the Bible. I found a site that lists biblical references for each of the TULIP points but I can't get the thing to load. However, I'd rather quote the references than give chapter and verse numbers anyway. Maybe if we stick to the Bible we can avoid arguing from our own inability to grasp things that are too high for us.
The main problem I kept running into in Arminian churches was the way they blame everything on the devil so that you'd think God had no power to deal with him at all, which does seem to follow from the idea that God foresees but does not ordain in the Arminian view. Also all the preaching about signing a card, making a decision, accepting that "God loves you," which you cannot know, and so on. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why are there tornadoes and earthquakes and sink holes and so on? To complain that God ordains it all is simply to complain about the reality we live in. We live in it no matter what your theology says about it. Once you know the theology what does it accomplish to complain about it? It's all going to happen whether you know the reason for it or not. AND, reality makes sense on the level of our own experience anyway.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
How does Arminianism account for evil people? Or account for Satan? Neither is under God's control. It's all free will. I find that nervous-making myself.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Why are there bad people, Faith?
I will make it multiple choice A) God made people that are wicked B) People choose, of their own will, to be wicked C) ____________Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why are there tornadoes, HBD?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Weather differences.
But God makes people and if God foreknows who will be elected and who will not be elected then that God is just vile, evil, deserves no respect and should be opposed and ridiculed.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You scare me the way you keep digging yourself into the deepest Hell.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
The ultimate answer to you is that Calvin is Biblical so that criticizing him is criticizing the Bible. Nonsense.
The main problem I kept running into in Arminian churches was the way they blame everything on the devil so that you'd think God had no power to deal with him at all, which does seem to follow from the idea that God foresees but does not ordain in the Arminian view. Sure, blaming our failings on the devil is inappropriate. But that is not an exclusively Arminian problem.
Also all the preaching about signing a card, making a decision Yes, I don't like that either. It seems more about generating numbers rather than making disciples. But again, not exclusively an Arminian problem. Most Calvinistic churches I have attended have used the same strategy. I think it is a evangelical strategy of the past, not so common anymore.
accepting that "God loves you," which you cannot know, and so on. Now this is where you are absolutely and utterly wrong.
quote: Where does it say that God only loves those he has elected? HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jacob I have loved but Esau I have hated.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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LOL
From Ghoolies and Ghosties and Long Leggidy Beasties and things that go bump in the Night Dear Lord, Preserve us. It scares me that you worship and how hard to try to market a vile evil God who deserves nothing but ridicule and opposition. A God that creates humans with the foreknowledge that the individual will be damned is lower than a kid that pulls off spiders legs, that burns ants with his magnifying glass, that rapes people for fun and giggles. It is not God I ridicule but rather the tiny little pimply faced pimp daddy of a caricature of a god that you try to market.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Why are there tornadoes, HBD? How is that an answer to my question? How is it even the same thing? Do you believe God makes tornadoes, maybe as judgement? Or is it sin that causes tornadoes. I think it is simply a natural consequence of our physical world and the conditions of our world. Now answer mine.Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Laughable.
quote: quote: quote: Was Jesus confused? Was he talking about a different God? HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Calvinism takes it ALL into account, God IS love. Arminians pick only what suits them and throw out the rest. Besides I don't see what your quotes have to do with election or predestination. Calvinists hardly ignore those commands. Category error.
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