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Author Topic:   Are religions manmade and natural or supernaturally based?
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(2)
Message 212 of 511 (772035)
11-03-2015 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ICANT
11-03-2015 5:52 PM


Re: ICANT,
IC writes:
Because it applies after T=0
We could say the same about all the laws of physics we observe. Laws of motion. Conservation laws. Second law of thermodynamics. Etc.
So rather than the laws of nature we observe being a property of our universe you have somehow decided that they all existed prior to the existence of our universe.
Is that correct? Or is it just conservation of mass and energy you think predates our universe and not the others? Are you just picking and choosing the ones you think support your ideas and ignoring the rest?
For example - What state of entropy would an eternal entity find itself in? As a clue you yourself talked about this in Message 120

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2015 5:52 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2015 11:51 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 236 of 511 (772111)
11-06-2015 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by ICANT
11-04-2015 2:44 AM


Re: ICANT,
IC writes:
Regardless as to how many restrictions you would like to put on the supernatural power.
What restrictions?
I am simply asking how you think God would go about answering the question "Why does something rather than nothing exist?" where God himself is the 'something' in question.
If God asks himself the question "Why do I, rather than nothing, exist?"
Answer - .........

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by ICANT, posted 11-04-2015 2:44 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by ICANT, posted 11-06-2015 9:04 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 237 of 511 (772112)
11-06-2015 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by ICANT
11-03-2015 11:51 PM


Re: ICANT,
ICANT - Are you saying that ALL of the physical laws we observe in our universe somehow predate our universe?
Or is it just "conservation of mass and energy" you think predates our universe and not the others? Are you just picking and choosing the ones you think support your ideas and ignoring the rest?
IC writes:
...the laws that govern the universe...
And this is the crux of the issue here.
If the laws in question are properties of the universe itself the the laws you speak of wouldn't actually exist until the universe itself existed. Thus applying these laws to the creation of the universe would be unwarranted.
How do you react to that idea?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2015 11:51 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by ICANT, posted 11-06-2015 9:43 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 247 of 511 (772151)
11-07-2015 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by ICANT
11-06-2015 9:04 PM


Re: ICANT,
So God said that I exist that I exist
Which makes my point that God has no answer to the question of why something rather than nothing exists either.
If we are going to accept that things just exist because they do then we might as well start with the existence of things we know to exist (e.g. The universe) rather than introducing other entities into the mix and ascribing to them all sorts of super powers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by ICANT, posted 11-06-2015 9:04 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 248 of 511 (772155)
11-07-2015 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by ICANT
11-06-2015 9:43 PM


Re: ICANT,
So your position is that an unrestricted God creates a bunch of physical laws first and then provides the energy for our universe to be created because that is what the laws he has just setup demand in order for him to bring our universe into existence whilst remaining in accordance with the laws he has created but which he is unbounded by.
I see.
Remind me again why you think the "law of conservation of mass and energy" applies to the formation of our universe rather than being a property of it?
Laws have to be created
Whether that is true or not brings us neatly back to the question of "Why is there something rather than nothing?" and what the nature of that "something" could be. Laws. God(s). Our universe. A universe creation machine. Etc.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by ICANT, posted 11-06-2015 9:43 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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