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Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Taq
Member
Posts: 7519
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 31 of 892 (792567)
10-11-2016 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Theodoric
10-10-2016 5:17 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Well since you claim it exists how about showing it.

It's the age old complaint we keep hearing from conservatives, that reality has a liberal bias. If journalists dare to report facts and reality, they are obviously biased against conservatives.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Theodoric, posted 10-10-2016 5:17 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30717
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 32 of 892 (792639)
10-12-2016 10:43 AM


International reactions?
If Trump were to get elected as US President, what should other nations do?

Are there preemptive actions the US Congress should take immediately (for example codifying Obama's ban on waterboarding and other tortures into law) or any treaties that need to be ratified before Trump takes office?

Is there a clear statement of what constitutes High Crimes and Misdemeanors?

If Trump is elected President what provisions exist to prevent using the Presidency to fund or support his personal and corporate businesses?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 14920
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 33 of 892 (792640)
10-12-2016 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Diomedes
10-11-2016 1:30 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Diomedes writes:

Not only does he have many of the same character flaws as Clinton, he also brings to the table absolutely no political experience.


That's the problem with trying to overthrow the "political establishment". When you throw out the insiders you're also throwing out the experience on how to win elections.

As one commentator put it, elections are about adding, not subtracting. Unless the Republicans learn to broaden their base instead of solidifying what they already have, they're doomed to be a second-rate party (like the Canadian Conservatives).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Diomedes, posted 10-11-2016 1:30 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 3:15 PM ringo has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 892 (792644)
10-12-2016 12:28 PM


sigh
I'm just not going to vote.
Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by RAZD, posted 10-13-2016 8:44 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 695
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(2)
Message 35 of 892 (792650)
10-12-2016 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
10-12-2016 11:42 AM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
As one commentator put it, elections are about adding, not subtracting. Unless the Republicans learn to broaden their base instead of solidifying what they already have, they're doomed to be a second-rate party (like the Canadian Conservatives).

Exactly. Ironically, even President Shit for Brains (Dubya) understood this. He actually did a lot of outreach to Hispanics during his campaign. Any Conservative that doesn't have his/her head up their ass would recognize that this a large voting block of people who generally have conservative principles. They are religious. They are family oriented. But instead, the right decides to placate to the nutjobs and focus on building a 'UUGE' wall to keep out them Mexican rapists.

And it's even got so bad now, that demonizing a Gold Star Family like the Khan's is socially acceptable on the right; so long as that family are some fuzzy foreigners.

I have to admit, although I don't generally like the guy or agree with him, at least Paul Ryan, who was not enamored with The Donald from the get go, has finally thrown up his hands in indignation and basically shown the middle finger to the Republican nominee. So I have to give him some props for that.

I wonder what sort of conversations will occur at the RNC when this election is done. They did that 'autopsy' after Romney lost by a large margin to Obama in 2012. They supposedly came out of that with some ideas on how to improve their chances in subsequent elections. And the end result there was The Donald.
Not trying to judge, but whomever was running that autopsy and making suggestions should probably be fired.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 10-12-2016 11:42 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Theodoric, posted 10-12-2016 3:23 PM Diomedes has responded
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 Message 55 by ringo, posted 10-13-2016 11:52 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5777
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(3)
Message 36 of 892 (792651)
10-12-2016 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 3:15 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Not trying to judge, but whomever was running that autopsy and making suggestions should probably be fired.

In actuality the suggestions were pretty good. The problem is the base fought against them and never would have supported them. A party that is the home of racists, anti-Semites, white nationalists and misogynists can never make the tent bigger.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 3:15 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 695
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 37 of 892 (792653)
10-12-2016 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Theodoric
10-12-2016 3:23 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
In actuality the suggestions were pretty good. The problem is the base fought against them and never would have supported them. A party that is the home of racists, anti-Semites, white nationalists and misogynists can never make the tent bigger.

But this is still due to the rhetoric that has been permeating on the right. As I mentioned, Dubya actually did effective outreach to Hispanics. And he still won (well, sort of), in 2000 and 2004. The problem is, this excessive rhetoric reached a fever pitch during the Obama administration. I think maybe actually seeing a black man in the Oval Office just put some Republicans over the edge. Idiots like Mitch McConnell, a guy who looks like what would happen if Franklin the Turtle lived to be 500 and eventually left his shell, pushed forth the notion that Obama had to be a 'one term president'. And this was before Obama was even sworn in!

In the end, while the Republican base may have certain views, they are guided to those views by the establishment. And that is what happened with Trump. Their fixation was on immigrants, birtherism, and 'insiders'. And they fixated on that because they were told to fixate on that. All other considerations fell to the wayside. Including their supposed 'Christian Values'. Look at how Trump behaves; he can boast about being able to grope women and grab them by the crotch and it does NOTHING to affect his numbers with the base.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Taq, posted 10-12-2016 4:54 PM Diomedes has responded
 Message 45 by nwr, posted 10-12-2016 9:52 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2763
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 38 of 892 (792660)
10-12-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 3:15 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
The GOP is a fundamentalist group awash in a sea of ever changing demographics. Until they figure that out how to get along with poor brown people they are doomed imo. **and that stuff Theodoric said too.

Edited by 1.61803, : **added.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7519
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 39 of 892 (792661)
10-12-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 4:14 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
Diomedes writes:

But this is still due to the rhetoric that has been permeating on the right. As I mentioned, Dubya actually did effective outreach to Hispanics. And he still won (well, sort of), in 2000 and 2004. The problem is, this excessive rhetoric reached a fever pitch during the Obama administration. I think maybe actually seeing a black man in the Oval Office just put some Republicans over the edge. Idiots like Mitch McConnell, a guy who looks like what would happen if Franklin the Turtle lived to be 500 and eventually left his shell, pushed forth the notion that Obama had to be a 'one term president'. And this was before Obama was even sworn in!

In the end, while the Republican base may have certain views, they are guided to those views by the establishment. And that is what happened with Trump. Their fixation was on immigrants, birtherism, and 'insiders'. And they fixated on that because they were told to fixate on that. All other considerations fell to the wayside. Including their supposed 'Christian Values'. Look at how Trump behaves; he can boast about being able to grope women and grab them by the crotch and it does NOTHING to affect his numbers with the base.

Before Obama was even sworn in, the Republican establishment settled on a strategy where they would obstruct anything proposed by Democrats, and vilify Democrats as a means of distracting people from failed Republican policies. What's the Republican health care plan? Wait for Democrats to propose one, then be against it. That's their health care plan. The same applies to all other foreign and domestic policies.

When your only two actions are obstruction and demonizing your opponent, Trump is what you get. Republicans created the environment that allowed Trump's rise to prominence, and they should be held to account. The only thing keeping them afloat is that their hair brained Tea Party members will vote with Republicans in Congress, and their control of congressional districting through state governments.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 4:14 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 5:44 PM Taq has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 695
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 40 of 892 (792666)
10-12-2016 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Taq
10-12-2016 4:54 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
When your only two actions are obstruction and demonizing your opponent, Trump is what you get. Republicans created the environment that allowed Trump's rise to prominence, and they should be held to account. The only thing keeping them afloat is that their hair brained Tea Party members will vote with Republicans in Congress, and their control of congressional districting through state governments.

That pretty much sums it up. And let's not forget gerrymandering. Another tactic they used, especially in 2010 when the Congressional districts were re-drawn.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Taq, posted 10-12-2016 4:54 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Taq, posted 10-12-2016 6:05 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7519
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 41 of 892 (792668)
10-12-2016 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 5:44 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
And let's not forget gerrymandering. Another tactic they used, especially in 2010 when the Congressional districts were re-drawn.

In case it wasn't clear, that is what I meant by "their control of congressional districting through state governments" in the previous post.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Diomedes, posted 10-12-2016 5:44 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2016 3:11 PM Taq has responded

  
14174dm
Member
Posts: 133
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(2)
Message 42 of 892 (792671)
10-12-2016 6:50 PM


Good ideas gone stupid
One of my issues with the GOP and the "conservatives" is that they've taken decent ideas to stupid extents.

My prime example is tax rates. We are currently have federal deficit spending. So what is the conservative plan? Cut taxes more.

Trump took it to levels beyond stupid by advocating to cut taxes, spend more on military AND spend on infrastructure. How would he handle the payments? By not paying. Since the damn furners hold about $6 trillion that's fine. Of course the various US entities and individuals owning the remaining $13 trillion would be screwed.

How am I supposed to take seriously anyone supporting this type of stupidity?

What happened to "conservative" meaning preserving long term values? Now it means concreting the existing power structure into place at all cost and ignoring the future consequences.

Edited by 14174dm, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30717
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 43 of 892 (792676)
10-12-2016 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by 14174dm
10-12-2016 6:50 PM


Re: Good ideas gone stupid
14174dm writes:

How would he handle the payments? By not paying. Since the damn furners hold about $6 trillion that's fine. Of course the various US entities and individuals owning the remaining $13 trillion would be screwed.

But again, that would simply be classic Trump. Bankruptcy is just smart as long as it is not his Personal bankruptcy.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by 14174dm, posted 10-12-2016 6:50 PM 14174dm has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5579
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 44 of 892 (792679)
10-12-2016 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
10-12-2016 10:43 AM


Re: International reactions?
Is there a clear statement of what constitutes High Crimes and Misdemeanors?

Perhaps not. But using the office of the presidency to conduct a personal vendetta against one's political opponent surely fits.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5579
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 45 of 892 (792680)
10-12-2016 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Diomedes
10-12-2016 4:14 PM


Re: Recent Polls and Election Predictions
The problem is, this excessive rhetoric reached a fever pitch during the Obama administration. I think maybe actually seeing a black man in the Oval Office just put some Republicans over the edge.

It may reach an even higher pitch during a Clinton administration, with a women in the oval office.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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