|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: The 2016 United States Presidential Election | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
, it's important to understand where they're coming from because they're not going away. I accept that such was the intent. Unfortunately what I read in the article did not inspire understanding. I did feel some pity. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
So forget the article. I still think it's important to understand how Trump supporters came to feel as they do, Yeah, but I already knew that. I wonder who the article is actually trying to convince. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
You are so funny. You haven't yet actually discussed the message of the article, just find excuses to dismiss it. I don't think anybody disagrees on the message of the article. I agree with Percy on the importance of understanding why folks picked Trump as their candidate and I think it is important to appreciate the long term consequences of that reality. Much has been written on the subject. I don't apologize for finding this particular attempt ham-fisted and silly. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
I can't recall much if anything being written in this thread about the importance of the two sides understanding each other's concerns. My comments about what has been written were not limited to what has been posted in this thread. Or even on this board.
If you're bored of the subject, fine, we know now, you can stop telling us. You seem to want to fight where there is nothing to fight about. I did not claim that the subject was boring. I criticized the depiction of each sides concerns as described in the article. The article was not all that great or insightful in expressing each sides concerns. If anything the article described Trump supporters in ways I find completely unsympathetic and attributed beliefs to those folks that were crude and stereotypical depictions of urban folk. Edited by NoNukes, : Remove some barbs. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
But it would be very interesting if you could provide links to the attempts making the same point that you didn't find ham-fisted and silly. And if they're also entertaining then all the better I consider the polarization in politics to be a very important matter to the point where the entertainment value of articles is of little to no importance. Here are some articles exploring the differences between folks: A majority of Donald Trump supporters think everything has been terrible since the 1950s | Salon.com
quote: Clinton, Trump backers differ on views of climate change, scientists | Pew Research Center
quote: Even If He Loses, Donald Trump's Supporters Aren't Going Away - The Atlantic
quote: Taking Trump voters’ concerns seriously means listening to what they’re actually saying - Vox
quote: The topic is not boring. Lot's of people are discussing this stuff. I don't believe the particular article you and RAZD recommend is all that insightful. But that does not mean that I find the topic boring. By the way, is anyone other than myself responsible for pushing the concern beyond what was in the article? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
More irregular stuff in Nevada:
Two native American tribes sued Nevada earlier this month because its members had to travel one hundred miles from the reservation in order to get to an early voting location. After the state declined to help them, a court ordered that the tribe members be accommodated by setting up a satellite voting station. After the decision, tribes who were required to travel in excess of two hundred miles requested the same accommodation but were turned down by the state who claimed that it was now too late to accommodate them. https://thinkprogress.org/...-denial-7e0315de3810#.pqf3kcco4
quote: Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix quote box. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
The difference right now is that power to control and influence the Democratic Process is held by a group of super conservative Republicans. I am going to disagree in part with this summary. It is true of course that Democratic politicians are no more or less evil than their Republican counter parts. However the tactics employed by the two sides over the last 40-50 years, a time which includes both parties having their times at the top, suggests that one party can legitimately claim to have most of the high road. Over that time, the Republican party has consistently been the party of white folks only, and the Democratic party, has for the most part, not played the game of trying to prevent white folks from voting. Yes Democrats have gerrymanded when they have control of state legislatures, but they have not actively attempted to prevent folks from voting using anything like the tactics that Republicans currently use. Instead they have generally relied on things like voter registration drives that result in more folks voting rather than fewer. They have attempted to put in place early voting, and easy registration. If I recall correctly, the Texas Republican Party platform expresses opposition to 'motor voter' registration in which folks get registered at the same time that they get their driver's licenses or carry out other state business. Not denying the history jar cites, but it simply is not correct that during current times, each of the parties in power repress voting with equal alacrity. Republicans are fairly tarred with that brush. Only one group of folks refuses to restore voting rights to former felons because they are afraid of who they will vote for. Only one group of folks refuses to allow representation of folks in DC because they are largely democratic voters. I understand that the reasons for that difference are not altruistic, but the battle of tactics of impeding voting versus the tactic of trying to include more folks presents one side, and one side only, in a poor light. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
I might be convinced if you dropped it down to the last 10 years or maybe even 20 years but cannot swallow a span of 40-50 years. Were not all of those incidents you cited things that occurred on the order of 40 years ago? I might yield to you ten years of the difference, but certainly not 30. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
My guess is unless something of substance comes out of that FBI investigation in the next few days, it appears most of the email controversy is already baked into the results. During the campaign it has taken a few days for new controversy to get reflected into the results. But given that huge numbers of folks have already voted, issues will have less effect. Besides that, what we currently have isn't really all that much. I think if something is to be made from them, it will take some active pumping by the media or Trump. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
This is usually done by the party or a segment of the party. There are videos on the internet showing how easy this is. One such source is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GamR4y_ykA0 I'm not going to dispute that this is possible and even easy. My question is about your statement about who "usually" commits this kind of fraud. What evidence is there regarding a pattern of abuse that we can label "usually"? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
4. Every citizen should be able to vote without question or restriction of any kind. The federal government could issue photo ID voter cards through the post office just as passports are issued. They can be issued on the 18th birthday for natural born citizens, and issued when naturalized citizens pass their citizenship requirements. Open question. Is the issuance of voter ID something Congress can do? I am pretty sure that the Congress as currently constituted would not be inclined to do issue a national card, and there is also the question of possible abuse of any universal ID card system. But I agree with the sentiment that voter ID is just fine if the government is willing to go to some effort to make sure everyone has the id. Perhaps if progressives were to expend their energy in that direction, the steam could be taken out of efforts to restrict voting on the state level. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Yeah. Already done. It's called your Social Security card. So you believe that the Federal Government can require states to accept a Social Security card as voter ID? Even for local elections? I don't believe the feds can do that. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
But it could certainly be made an option. And with a Presidential Decree that such cards must be accepted it would take the steam out. Presidential decree? My question was about whether Congress had the authority, to establish a national ID card that the states were bound to respect at election time. It is unclear that they have the power to do such a thing. But it is certainly clear that the president does not have such power.
The photo ID law was designed to seem benign; most people have a drivers license and a relatively permanent home address. Except for the huge number of folks who don't.
It is when you delve into the regulations of what you need to get one that the intent becomes clear. There is also some deliberate deck stacking. In North Carolina, gun permits count as voter IDs, but student IDs even from the state universities do not. Pretty clear example of targeting some folks for voting right extinction. Very seldom are the ID laws just about ID. In North Carolina the changes involved curtailing early voting, eliminating registration of high school students at their schools, cancelling voter locations on college campuses, etc. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
By the way, is anyone besides me concerned that if Trump loses, he will not concede defeat and try to drag this out for weeks by questioning the legitimacy of the election outcome? I'm not concerned. I am more concerned that Trump might pull off a win than I am about his whining if he loses. Almost certainly any "dragging out" will be ineffective and short lived. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
Nice head fake by the head of the FBI. Almost like a Keystone Cops routine. I doubt that either Trump or Hillary will suffer this fool more than a couple of days after their inaugurations. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024