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Author | Topic: The 2016 United States Presidential Election | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Indiana officials are trying to block almost 45,000 black citizens from voting
quote: The fix is in for Indiana ... by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
So Lawson found irregularities in voter registration forms by checking against the state database that she says is also full of irregularities. Nice work! And of course, wait for the last minute to do anything about it. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Can anyone show any like efforts in Democrat-controlled states to disenfranchise any segment of American voters? Every state that has gerrymandered districts is using their power to stay in power, which is basically what this kind of rigging is all about. So Massachusetts would be an example for you.
Yes, the fix is in. And the system is rigged to maintain the existing status quo power structure. Republicans are getting more and more desperate though, because they are losing and time is against them: demographics are changing to more liberal populations. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Most notable in these primary and election threads has been the tepid support for Hillary. Obviously some regions are rabidly pro-Hillary, but I think tepid support is more the rule than anything more enthusiastic. If she wins it won't be for what she represents but for who she isn't. I posted this in July before the primary on facebook:
quote: Seems that prediction is coming true. So a lot of "Hillbots" are posting "Remember Nader" and accusing people of endangering the election, ... when the nadir truth is that Gore did not earn enough votes: Dispelling the Myth of Election 2000: Did Nader Cost Gore the Election?
quote: Gore also alienated progressives in the campaign, and sealed that when he picked hawkish independent Lieberman for VP. Hillary is making those very same mistakes by ridiculing Bernie people and picking DINO Tim Kaine for VP. Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it. If Hillary loses it will be because she does not earn enough votes. Her tepid non-response to the DAPL protest is indicative of HER wrong direction. Her comment in the (leaked email) account of talks about having a "private face" and a "public face" are also indicative of trustworthiness in actually meaning what she says in public. I expect that Hillary will win, because Trump is a troglodyte, not because she is a good candidate. I also expect that the senate may stay in republican hands because she won't inspire voters to elect down ticket candidates. Or that the republicans will win it back in 2018. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... The problem is, many of his most strident supporters are taking those statements literally. ... quote: quote: There are several types of fraud that can be committed during an election.
Voter fraud type 1 (people voting twice or pretending to be someone - dead - else) is rare. It is an individual trying to game the system.
Voter fraud type 2 (people not being allowed to vote, voter intimidation) is very prominent this year -- since the voter rights bill was gutted -- and almost all are committed by republican run states. An exception is Rhode Island that passed the ALEC voter photo ID law, which has resulted in fewer people of color getting to vote.
Election fraud type 1 (electronic voting machines hacked with virus that alters votes) is relatively easy, especially for the party in charge of running the elections in the state, and when there is no paper ballots to recount it is not possible to check (except by exit polls indicating significant differences). This is usually done by the party or a segment of the party. There are videos on the internet showing how easy this is. One such source is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GamR4y_ykA0
Election fraud type 2 (old school ballot stuffing or not counting some ballots, electronic vote count tallying machines hacked and tallies altered, ballots moved to different district with different order on ballots) is also covered by articles and videos on the internet. One such source is Hacking Democracy - Wikipedia The media tries to paint all fraud as type 1 voter fraud and ignores the evidence of other types, when they are more likely and much more dangerous in their ability to alter results. Note that the woman was trying to counter type 1 election fraud with type 1 voter fraud (with no guarantee of the second vote not being altered as well) Exit polls have traditionally been used to see if any of the frauds are being conducted in significant numbers -- ie results outside the margins of error of the poll -- but cannot identify the exact amount nor the source of the differences. See Exit poll - Wikipedia also see Stanford Study Proves Election Fraud through Exit Poll Discrepancies | Snopes.com
The obvious solution is to insist on a paper trail that can be (a) verified and (b) recounted by independent vote auditors. There are several reforms that would be needed for more democratic elections: 1. No more "winner take all" states for electoral college delegates: make delegates proportional to popular votes. 2. Every primary, state and national election should be by verifiable paper ballots with ranked/instant runoff voting, so no candidate can be a "spoiler" in any race. The final primary ranked votes are not counted until the convention, and the final ranked national elections are not counted until the electoral college.
Use the electoral college as the final counting system for the ranked votes. This has two benefits: (1) it does not require amendment to the constitution and (2) this shifts the media circus from election night to the day of the convention or the electoral college. This shift allows states time to validate and recount the ballots. 3. House of representative districts need to be apportioned by a rational metric removed from party bias, such as population density based on census data, and all candidates should be a resident of their district and have voted in it in the previous election. 4. Every citizen should be able to vote without question or restriction of any kind. The federal government could issue photo ID voter cards through the post office just as passports are issued. They can be issued on the 18th birthday for natural born citizens, and issued when naturalized citizens pass their citizenship requirements. 5. Mail in ballots should be available for everyone to send (or handed) in before the election day dead-line, and be exactly the same ballot as paper ballots at the polls. This can be initiated through ballot initiatives: see
Home Page - Ballot Initiative Strategy Center
The problem is also exacerbated by the rhetoric coming from Trump about the election being 'rigged'. ... Ignoring the evidence of rigging in US primaries and past elections does not make the evidence disappear, rather we should be advocating ways and means to ensure that neither party, nor any private group (like Diebold?), interferes with elections. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Open question. Is the issuance of voter ID something Congress can do? I am pretty sure that the Congress as currently constituted would not be inclined to do issue a national card, and there is also the question of possible abuse of any universal ID card system. Well I have elsewhere compared this to the govt issuing draft cards. Then there are passports that you can get at any post office, with an option for the traditional book style or a card style with photo. The card style is good for surface travel to Mexico and Canada, so it is useful for workers that cross the border to work. Thus the post offices already have the ability to issue photo ID cards, and they are conveniently located to most neighborhoods (more so than DMV stations).
But I agree with the sentiment that voter ID is just fine if the government is willing to go to some effort to make sure everyone has the id. Perhaps if progressives were to expend their energy in that direction, the steam could be taken out of efforts to restrict voting on the state level. But it could certainly be made an option. And with a Presidential Decree that such cards must be accepted it would take the steam out. Progressives have spent a lot of energy to get people registered but the regressive states have set so many road-blocks to getting the approved type ID that it takes 8 or more trips for many people in the target groups. The photo ID law was designed to seem benign; most people have a drivers license and a relatively permanent home address. It is when you delve into the regulations of what you need to get one that the intent becomes clear. Working within those regulations is made more difficult by obstructive administration. This would be an end-run around that. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I'm not going to dispute that this is possible and even easy. My question is about your statement about who "usually" commits this kind of fraud. What evidence is there regarding a pattern of abuse that we can label "usually"? Means, Motive and Opportunity ... Who has the most Opportunity? People that handle the machines or set them up, which is usually the party in power in the state.
(8 minutes) Democracy Watch is non-partisan and not a conspiracy group. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Except for the huge number of folks who don't. There is also some deliberate deck stacking. In North Carolina, gun permits count as voter IDs, but student IDs even from the state universities do not. Pretty clear example of targeting some folks for voting right extinction. Very seldom are the ID laws just about ID. In North Carolina the changes involved curtailing early voting, eliminating registration of high school students at their schools, cancelling voter locations on college campuses, etc. Exactly, I've posted this on Facebook several times:
quote: Presidential decree? My question was about whether Congress had the authority, to establish a national ID card that the states were bound to respect at election time. It is unclear that they have the power to do such a thing. But it is certainly clear that the president does not have such power. We need to find a way to effect voter rights. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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People talk about how the GOP made the monster with their relentless Faux Noise etc, creating the base that he appeals to.
But American Capitalism made Trump what he is: the personification of it - make money by whatever means works, and screw the losers. This is also part of his appeal. The bankruptcies don't matter because he made money and losers lost money. That's how unfettered capitalism works. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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If you can't get people to vote for you, try keeping those people from voting, and when registration restrictions aren't good enough, try a little intimidation ...
quote: quote: The GOP has been talking about this for years, through talking heads and other right wing "sources" of misinformation. Once again we see Trump playing to the base that believes the propaganda. Intimidation is election fraud. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
One mantra i keep on hearing is how the two candidates are so bad, there will be low turnout. It appears that Trump terrifies enough minorities that that might not be true. ... We may well see minorities deciding this race. Think about that. That will be another nail in the coffin for the GOP. And I do think there is a significant portion of the democrat party that is less than thrilled with Hillary, so you may see some "privileged" white male democrats staying home. And I think there will be a significant number of republicans that are less than thrilled to vote for Trump, but will be happy to vote against Hillary, just because it is Hillary.
... Of course, most of the people who have been saying that have been republicans. Tell them that Obama is coming for their guns on Nov 8th and they need to stay home for protection. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I have a theory explaining Trump's Republican support: Get him elected, get him impeached and convicted (shouldn't take long for him to commit an impeachable offense), ... He could be convicted of fraud AND child rape before innaugeration or shortly thereafter.
... then inaugurate Mike Pence and voil, the country has a Republican president who isn't stark raving mad. Except that Pence is stark raving delusional. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... I think that she is a candidate that the GOP hate, and will try to obstruct like crazy. ... I think we can take that as a given. There will be no honeymoon. Even if she wins AND the democrats retake the senate, they will likely lose it again in 2018. That gives her two years to appoint court judges (lots of federal judge vacancies, not just Supreme Court) and the senate can invoke majority votes to approve with no filibuster. And that's it. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Actually that would be far more than I could even hope for. There are over 100 current Federal Judgeships open plus the deciding one on the Supreme Court. Federal Judges serve for life or until they retire. ... This is why the senate is more important than electing the first female president. The democrats need to up their game in house and state races if they hope to survive, and they need a major ground game to focus on 2018 ... because the next census is 2020 and results WILL be used to gerrymander districts. And that "ground game" does not include an favors for corporations, it must be focused on restoring the middle class and lower economic groups to restore the "American Dream" for the working people.
... Add 100 progressive Federal Judges ... And that's another problem that I cannot expect\trust the current DINO DNC and Hillary to do. She is much more likely to try packing the seats with pro-corporation pro big business types unless held to the fire by progressives in the Senate (With Bernie and Elizabeth leading the charge). We will likely see the GOP rush to approve Obama's last (corporatist) nomination so that she won't have a SCOTUS seat to fill. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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However, Bush's military venture did not depend on her vote. If she had voted the other way, we would still have had the war. So her vote was wasted.
Yes, Hillary was wrong to support the war. And she was far too slow to admit her mistake. What it shows is her mind-set, her readiness to "solve" problems with war instead of political negotiations. She admits making errors when it is politically expedient. Gay marriage is another case in point. She "evolves" ... If your candidate consistently makes an initial (bad) choice counter to social progress, then they are being dragged to the correct path, not leading. Curiously, I want a leader that makes the right initial choices. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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