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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 142 of 381 (813244)
06-24-2017 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Riggamortis
06-24-2017 10:28 PM


Re: Marxism is no solution to human problems
It supposes that the wealthy few are leveraging their wealth against the interests of the many and therefore calls for the many to leverage their number against the few.
The wealthy are so blatantly manipulating our democracies that I cannot fathom how you think it's a 'false and destructive analysis'. It would help if you'd argue it, rather than just assert it.
How about explaining what YOU mean? HOW are the wealthy few "leveraging their wealth against the interests of the many?"
What would it entail for "the many to leverage their number against the few?" Exactly what does that mean in practical reality?
And exactly how are the wealthy few "blatantly manipulating our democracies?"
Since I suppose your analysis is Marxist in principle you should educate us about that.

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 Message 140 by Riggamortis, posted 06-24-2017 10:28 PM Riggamortis has replied

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 Message 165 by Riggamortis, posted 06-25-2017 8:53 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 145 of 381 (813250)
06-25-2017 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by PaulK
06-25-2017 12:46 AM


Re: the Tenets of Satanism
I misspoke about the biographer, merely intending to say Payne was an actual biographer to contrast him with Wurmbrand who is merely doing a study of the Satanic themes in Marx's life.
Joanna Southcott's "prophecies" make her an occultist at least, which connects her with the powers of darkness. I'll see if I can find more reason in the book to connect her with Satanism itself as Wurmbrand did.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 147 of 381 (813252)
06-25-2017 5:31 AM


Son in Law into Satanism
Wurmbrand says he found out that the keepers of Marx's manuscripts have a hundred of them, out of which only thirteen have been made public. So he wonders if there is more overt Satanism in those not made public. The evidence from the public documents is his early writings that make use of satanic themes, and the fact that his friends do show more overt involvement in Satanism.
On p.25 (Marx and Satan)he quotes the overt Satanism of the husband of Marx's favorite daughter Eleanor:
Satan is in the Family
Marx's favorite daughter, Eleanor, with her father’s approval, married Edward Eveling. He lectured on such subjects as "The Wickedness of God." (Just as Satanists do. Unlike atheists, they do not deny the existence of God, except to deceive others; they know of His existence, but describe Him as wicked.) In his lectures he tried to prove that God is "an encourager of polygamy and an instigator to theft." He advocated the right to blaspheme. The following poem describes the attitudes of his movement toward Satanism:
To thee my verses, unbridled and daring,
Shall mount, O Satan, king of the banquet.
Away with thy sprinkling, O priest, and thy droning.
For never shall Satan, O priest, stand behind thee.
Thy breath, O Satan, my verses inspires,
When from my bosom the gods I defy.
Of kings pontifical, of kings inhuman:
Throe is the lightning that sets minds to shaking.
O soul that wanderest far from the straight way,
Satan is merciful. See Heloisa!
Like the whirlwind spreading its wings,
He passes, O people, Satan the great!
Hail, of reason the great Vindicator!
Sacred to thee shall rise incense and vows!
Thou hast the god of the priest disenthroned
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 149 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 6:11 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 148 of 381 (813253)
06-25-2017 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by dwise1
06-25-2017 3:27 AM


Re: Health Care and Retirement
The Bible forbids giving to the rich.

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 Message 170 by dwise1, posted 06-25-2017 2:25 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 150 of 381 (813255)
06-25-2017 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by PaulK
06-25-2017 6:11 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
I note that you give no evidence yourself, just make assertions. Wurmbrand says Eleanor's marriage had Marx's approval, and the poem attributed to her husband is certainly Satan worship. Even if you were right that the marriage came after Marx's death it must say something about Marx that his favorite daughter would marry a Satan worshiper. And there's a lot more evidence of such Satanic themes among Marx's friends, so the evidence is hardly confined to Eleanor's husband.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 151 of 381 (813256)
06-25-2017 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
06-25-2017 6:17 AM


Violence inherent in Marxism itself
Page 36:
Cult of Violence
Engels wrote in Anti-Duhring, "Universal love for men is an absurdity." And in a letter to a friend he said, "We need hate rather than love - at least for now"
Che Guevara learned his Marxist lessons well. In his writings he echoes Engels' sentiments:
Hate is an element of fight-pitiless hate against the foe, hate that lifts the revolutionist above the natural limitation of man and makes him become an efficient, destructive, cool, calculating, and cold killing machine.
This is what the Devil wishes to make of men. He has succeeded all too well with many notorious leaders of the human race. In our lifetime we have witnessed more than our share: Hitler, Eichmann, Mengele, Stalin, Mao, Andropov, Pol Pot
Marx writes in The Communist Manifesto:
The Communists despise making a secret of their opinions and intentions. They openly declare that their aims can be reached only through the violent overthrow of the whole existing social structure. - There is only one method to shorten the murderous pains of death of the old society, the bloody birth pangs of the new society; only one method to simplify and concentrate them, that is revolutionary terrorism.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 153 of 381 (813260)
06-25-2017 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by PaulK
06-25-2017 6:34 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
The poem by Aveling is overt Satan worship. So are statements by Bakunin and others already quoted. Satanic sympathies are likely to be suppressed in biographies wouldn't you guess? Either because the biographer doesn't take them seriously or because they would prejudice people against the person. It takes a Wurmbrand to bring out such sympathies where he finds them.
I wonder if the Marxist writings that haven't been made public would exhibit more overt Satanism in Marx himself. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

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 Message 152 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 6:34 AM PaulK has replied

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 Message 154 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:39 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 155 of 381 (813263)
06-25-2017 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by PaulK
06-25-2017 7:39 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
I think the evidence is quite good and I think anyone not a convinced follower of Marx would take it seriously. I don't worry about small errors of fact myself, and since I don't expect to convince you of anything anyway, ever, I'm not worried about your opinion either. Take it or leave it. I think it's interesting enough to post.

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 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:57 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 381 (813264)
06-25-2017 7:53 AM


Main interest in killing God?
Wurmbrand next gets into examples of satanic style mockery of the Lord's Prayer as recited in Communist circles. He makes a good case, it seems to me, that the founders of Marxism and their closest followers, care more about trying to kill Christianity than they care about any of the social tenets that are their supposed main concern. Which would of course be in keeping with Satan's objectives.
Mockery of the Lord's Prayer is customary in many Communist lands.
Ethiopian children were taught to pray as follows:
Our Party which rulest in the Soviet Union,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done
in Ethiopia and in the whole world.
43
Give us this day our daily bread,
and don't forgive the trespasses of the Imperialists as we will not forgive them.
And may we resist the temptation to abandon the fight,
And deliver us from the evils of Capitalism.
Amen.
Over an Ethiopian Lutheran radio station confiscated by the Communist government, a Satanist version of the Bible a was broadcast. First Corinthians 13 sounded like this:
Though I speak all the languages and have no enmity toward the landlords and capitalists, I have become as sounding brass.... Class hatred suffers no exploitation and is brutal. Class hatred envies their riches and vaunts itself with the successful revolutions in many Socialist states.... And now abide faith, hope, and class hatred, but the greatest of these is revolutionist hatred.
Class hatred. Exactly. That's what Marxism promotes. Marxism is the cause of all the polarizing politics we are suffering from today. Trying to reconcile Marxism with American principles of freedom is a lost cause, it can't be done, and it's delusional to pretend it's possible.
During the general strike organized by the French Communists in 1974, workers were called to march in the streets of Paris shouting the slogan, "Giscard d'Estaing est foutu, les dmons sont dans la rue! (Giscard d'Estaing [then French president] is done with. Demons are now in the street)." Why not "the proletariat" or "the people"? Why this evocation of Satanic forces? What has this to do with the legitimate demands of the working class to have better salaries?
Indeed.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 159 by jar, posted 06-25-2017 8:03 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 381 (813266)
06-25-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by PaulK
06-25-2017 7:57 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
Why? You wouldn't have read it anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:57 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 8:06 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 161 of 381 (813269)
06-25-2017 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by jar
06-25-2017 8:03 AM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
So you think the confiscated Ethiopian Lutheran radio station didn't broadcast that Communist Satanist version of 1 Corinthians 13?
Of course there are classes in society, always have been, always will be. We don't need class hatred, we don't need the evil Marxist analysis that pits one against another, the Marxist recipe for violence of the formula Oppressor versus Oppressed, we need a Christian mindset to promote equity and fairness. America in fact has always been known for its success at that very unifying way of thinking. Marxism would kill that and is doing its best right now to kill it. The Left really really needs to wake up, find out what America is really all about, which has nothing to do with Marxism which is only trying to destroy it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 159 by jar, posted 06-25-2017 8:03 AM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 381 (813270)
06-25-2017 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by PaulK
06-25-2017 8:06 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
Well I'm sorry it isn't good enough for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 8:06 AM PaulK has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 167 of 381 (813275)
06-25-2017 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Riggamortis
06-25-2017 8:53 AM


Re: Marxism is no solution to human problems
I don't think wealth is the problem, I think fallen human nature is the problem, and Marxist principles are not the solution. Nothing you've said really addresses Marxist versus Capitalist issues anyway. You can be wealthy and a Marxist, and there are lots of those these days, lots more and lots wealthier than on the Right I suspect. Republicans are not necessarily Capitalists, Democrats are not necessarily Marxists, there are lots of economic problems that have nothing to do with that dichotomy anyway. I believe I said I'm for laws restraining exploitation, I'm aware that wealth can be used for bad purposes but I'm far from convinced that anything you've said addresses the real issues, or that they can be addressed by Marxism versus Capitalism at all.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 171 of 381 (813290)
06-25-2017 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by dwise1
06-25-2017 2:25 PM


Re: Health Care and Retirement
Oh nonsense. That's a weirdo Marxist idea in itself.
Besides, being a sinner doesn't make you a Satanist. You have to have the objective of killing Christianity and a lot of the human race to be a Satanist.
And to respond generally to the last few posts, I merely meant there are Republicans who think like Marxists and Democrats who think like Capitalists. AND I don't really want to get into Marxist economics on this thread anyway, although if someone can discuss it briefly and sharply that would be fine. I'm more interested in the general Marxism that pits one class against another and that is as much a part of Cultural Marxism as economic Marxism.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 172 of 381 (813291)
06-25-2017 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by caffeine
06-23-2017 1:05 PM


Re: Chapter One: Communist Manifesto
By the way I believe the reader pronounced "Friedrich" correctly, how do you think it should be pronounced?)
I think the 'ch' at the end should not sound as in 'chase', but like in 'loch' - though a bit harder.
I was listening again to the You Tube reading and to me it sounds like a soft "sh" rather than a hard "ch." It's not as soft as the German but it's a lot closer than "ch" as in "chase." As I hear it anyway. And the guy IS an American after all. It's amazing he could get that close to the German sound.
Any time you want to do Chapter Two is fine with me. I could use a distraction.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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