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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
My question is whether or not there was a reason they would want to march with you? And then thinking what reason would you have had to march with this Charlotteville group instead of against it? Well, I thinks it is stupid to tear down old statues. And I don't give a shit if some asshole also thinks that.
But what would be your "different reason" here, in this case? The stated reason for the protest was not tearing a statue down. If some assholes show up to display their anti-semitism, that doesn't mean I have to no longer want to preserve the statue.
Perhaps you might be talking about something else like Stopping A Pipeline? Hadn't thought of it, but let me use that to further illustrate my point: The natives were protesting the pipeline.Say some neo-nazis show up who also do not want the pipeline and stand with the natives. Some leftists are saying that makes the natives neo-nazis as well. I don't agree. Other leftists would present two choices to the natives: 1. Just leave - I don't think they should have to stop fighting against the pipeline. 2. Join the other side - I don't think they should have to start supporting the pipeline. I think they also have the option of ignoring the neo-nazis, or telling them to fuck off, and then just keep doing what they're doing. The problem is that leftists will start calling them NAZIS and think it is okay to start punching them. That is unacceptable. There are, actually, more than two sides in that situation. Make sense?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Some leftists are saying that makes the natives neo-nazis as well. I don't agree. That is not what anyone is saying. Dr. Jones explained exactly what he meant, yet you continue to misinterpret his statement in opposition to an argument that no one is making. The organizers of the march; the ones who fought in court to have the march were not Percy's historical preservation society. So we know that Charlottesville was not a bunch of history lovers overtaken by supremacists and neos. The Nazi's were the marchers. They were given a plan for keeping themselves separate from protesters and they did not follow it. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal. Sure, but it is safe to presume that some of the people there were not FUCKING NAZIS. It is wrong to assume that everyone there was a FUCKING NAZI. It is doubly wrong to think that everyone on the "wrong" side deserves to be punched. Those are the points I've been trying to make.
This is a long video, but just watch the first minute. I watched the whole thing a couple days ago. I remember thinking: "Wow, those are some shitty assholes." IIRC, I was surprised that they didn't care about color that much and were mostly just concerned with the Jews. But I've watched a few other videos on the subject so I may be misremembering. When I can again, if it matters, I'll re-watch it and better reply to the content of the video.
We're talking about Charlottesville and what happened there, not some scenario you're making up Excuse me: I didn't make up the 10+1 scenario, I responded to it.
If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them. Sure, but if you're not one of those and they join you, that does not make you one of them.
You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion. Ha! That's so stupid I don't think you're even reading my posts. Don't troll me bro.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
If there is a rally intended to "unite the right", and if it is full of Nazis I think it is pretty clear that anybody joining in is happy to ally with Nazis.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I don't care what you think as long as you're not advocating punching people.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
But I am not happy to see you try and pretend that the people happily and knowingly marching with Nazis - on a rally intended to promote alliance between Right Wing groups - are anything less than willing to ally with Nazis, even if not actual Nazis themselves.
Even if you were talking about the Ku Klux Klan rally in July that was all about the statue it would be bad enough, since the KKK organised the rally and everyone knew it.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
But I am not happy to see you try and pretend that the people happily and knowingly marching with Nazis - Well, I'm talking about people who are not "happily and knowingly marching with Nazis"...
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
Then you are not talking about Charlottesville. Indeed, even the ten to one phrase you objected to involved people happy to hang out with a Nazi.
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
New Cat's Eye writes: It was not the situation in Charlottesville of Unite the Right protestors mixing in to a larger group protesting statue removal. Sure,... Good, but reread your Message 1114 that I was replying to. Across several paragraphs it was about bad guys showing up to make good guys look bad. You concluded that message by again touching on violence, so I'll repeat that of course we should always be against violence from any side, whether white supremacists, white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, militia, or antifa.
If you have a group of white supremacists, white nationalists, Nazis, KKK and militia chanting, "The Jews will not replace us" and "Whose streets? Our streets!" and so forth, and you join them, guess what it means? You're one of them. Sure, but if you're not one of those and they join you, that does not make you one of them. You just agreed that Charlottesville wasn't a case of bad guys showing up to make good guys look bad, and now you're going back on yourself.
You're like Trump, trying to provide cover for groups with messages of hate, division and exclusion. Ha! That's so stupid I don't think you're even reading my posts. Don't troll me bro. How you look to others isn't for you to say. If you believe the message of Charlottesville is that messages of hate and exclusion should be called out for what they are then be clear about it. What I see is a nod toward opposing Nazis, then a lot of argument about bad guys making good guys look bad. You *are* pretty much communicating the same message as Trump. If you don't want to look like him, don't join him. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I propose that we move on to the next big event in the Trump Presidency.
What does everyone think of the Afghanistan recommitment? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
It looks like just more of the same and I expect it to be every bit as successful as past attempts.
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JonF Member (Idle past 199 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Oh Noes! Trump Never Said The Words 'Radical Islam' In Afghanistan Speech
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Utterly stupid.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I fear that it will be the final nail in the coffin of my retirement.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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The issue of Afghanistan is not really new news. While at least one Great Power did originate in Afghanistan that created an enormous and enduring empire not a single example of outside successful invasion has happened. Interestingly, even during the 12th century expansion that created the Great Indus Valley empire the rule and order part existed mostly outside Afghanistan. Internally the areas we identify today as Afghanistan remained a troubled area.
There is simply no example I am aware of of a successful internal nation state in Afghanistan and instead a long list of failed attempts by outside powers, Russian, French, English, American, Pakistani, Indian to invade, conquer, stabilize, contain, control or influence "Afghanistan". What is different about the latest planned attempts? AbE: Even the Maurya Empire which probably came the closest to incorporating Afghanistan into the wider world only lasted a few hundred years, from around 300BCE to around 185 BCE. Edited by jar, : see AbE
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