Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 107 (8805 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-12-2017 6:40 PM
324 online now:
DrJones*, Faith, Percy (Admin), Phat (AdminPhat), Taq (5 members, 319 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 824,058 Year: 28,664/21,208 Month: 730/1,847 Week: 105/475 Day: 15/37 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
7677
78
7980
...
103NextFF
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 669
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 1156 of 1540 (818164)
08-24-2017 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1154 by NoNukes
08-24-2017 11:46 AM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
A white nationalist is someone who wants the country to be dominated by whites in terms of governance and culture.

Interesting definition.

I say that not because I have a problem with your definition. I think you are entirely correct. However, I think the term covers a spectrum of behavior that ranges between something acceptable and something racist in the extreme.

I would put a caveat on that. From my perspective, a white nationalist is someone who not only wants the country to be governed by whites, but by a particular brand of whites. Namely, those of specific European ancestry and usually of specific religious affiliations.

I can tell you that as someone who is of Greek heritage, despite the fact that I am technically classified as 'white', I had to deal with some share of discrimination by quote-unquote Anglo-Saxon type whites when I was growing up. Mainly because of my slightly darker complexion but also by my Greek Orthodox religious background. Individuals in my home town who were of Portuguese decent (we had a large Portuguese population in my part of Canada) were equally on the receiving end of jokes and slurs.

This also extends to white nationalist's dislike of Jews. While many have Arabic roots, a large number are also of European heritage. But nonetheless, white nationalists pay little attention to that distinction.

In the end, I've always said the following about fanatical redneck white nationalists: they love to be racist. But the only races they can tell apart are Indianapolis and Daytona.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1154 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2017 11:46 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1157 by NoNukes, posted 08-24-2017 2:54 PM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 1158 by Taq, posted 08-24-2017 6:23 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1157 of 1540 (818165)
08-24-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1156 by Diomedes
08-24-2017 2:36 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
Diomedes writes:

I can tell you that as someone who is of Greek heritage, despite the fact that I am technically classified as 'white'

Back in the day (early the 20th century), US immigration laws explicitly allowed white people and folks of African descent to become naturalized citizens.[1] People from India were technically classified as caucasian, but our Supreme Court ruled that with respect to immigration policy, not all folks who are scientifically caucasian are white.

In any event, your point is well taken. In my haste, I had not given white nationalists their due for going beyond the bounds of mere race to find people to not want to be around.

For those who want to look stuff like this up...

[1] Naturalization Act of 1906
[2] United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind https://supreme.justia.com/...s/federal/us/261/204/case.html


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by Diomedes, posted 08-24-2017 2:36 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 1158 of 1540 (818198)
08-24-2017 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1156 by Diomedes
08-24-2017 2:36 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
Diomedes writes:

This also extends to white nationalist's dislike of Jews. While many have Arabic roots, a large number are also of European heritage. But nonetheless, white nationalists pay little attention to that distinction.

In the end, I've always said the following about fanatical redneck white nationalists: they love to be racist. But the only races they can tell apart are Indianapolis and Daytona.

It is less racism and more tribalism. They are against people who aren't rednecks. Say, for instance, that white supremacists take DNA tests to see what their ancestry is. Imagine if some of that DNA turns out to be African? That acutally happened:

https://www.theatlantic.com/...ionalists-dna-ancestry/537108

They find excuses as to why that DNA might be there, and fellow white supremacists are fine with it. What matters is that they adhere to the same beliefs, and that they can pass for being white.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by Diomedes, posted 08-24-2017 2:36 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1160 by 1.61803, posted 08-28-2017 12:52 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2171
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 1159 of 1540 (818316)
08-26-2017 7:59 PM


What a Long Strange Trip it's Been
Here is what I think of neo-Nazi sympathizer and early onset Alzheimer classic case Trump and Neo-liberal (Republican platform enabler) Clinton:

Today I joined the Democratic Socialists of America.

And to think I was the Socorro County Chair for the Libertarian Party 28 years ago.

Live and learn. Feel the Bern.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2730
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1160 of 1540 (818434)
08-28-2017 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1158 by Taq
08-24-2017 6:23 PM


Re: very fine people on both sides!?
Taq writes:

They find excuses as to why that DNA might be there, and fellow white supremacists are fine with it. What matters is that they adhere to the same beliefs, and that they can pass for being white.

Shhssh...don't tell that to Clayton Bigsby.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1158 by Taq, posted 08-24-2017 6:23 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1161 of 1540 (818478)
08-29-2017 10:48 AM


Let's not pretend that this post is anything other than what it is; yet another presentation on my part supporting the proposition that Trump is a clumsy, egotistical, and dangerous buffoon who no sane person should want as commander in chief.

"Trump says 'all options on table' after North Korea launches missile over Japan"

After a bunch of useless threats, Trump concludes that Kim Jong-Un is listening to reason and acting more civilized because the attack on Guam was called off. What is the immediate response? North Korea tests a bunch of short range missiles (apparently with little success) followed by launching a missile that flies over Japan.

Steve Bannon was right about one thing. There are no good options, military or otherwise for reeling in North Korea. Saying so got him fired, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. However, out of all of the non-options, Trump picks the one that fails within hours and makes us look weak to boot.

Here is a hypothetical for you. If you were the leader of Iran, what lesson would you take from how Trump deals with North Korea?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by 1.61803, posted 08-29-2017 3:48 PM NoNukes has responded

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2730
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1162 of 1540 (818492)
08-29-2017 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1161 by NoNukes
08-29-2017 10:48 AM


I for one was glad he stayed on script. Most likely prepared by the pentagon brass.

He sounded diplomatic and measured rather than his typical jingoistic
Game of Thrones shit talking.

The US "looks" weak when it comes to NK because our country and everyone else has been kicking the can down the road for decades.

What would be a good response in your opinion?

Believe me I am not Trump fan boy btw.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1161 by NoNukes, posted 08-29-2017 10:48 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1163 by Taq, posted 08-29-2017 4:48 PM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1164 by NoNukes, posted 08-30-2017 12:42 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 1163 of 1540 (818493)
08-29-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1162 by 1.61803
08-29-2017 3:48 PM


1.61803 writes:

What would be a good response in your opinion?

The only real response we have is to continue with the policy of mutually assured destruction, the same policy that got us through the Cold War. The silver lining on this rain cloud is that we probably won't have to fight in any proxy wars with NK.

The only way that NK will move towards disarmament is if China pressures them to. Economic sanctions are only partially effective because China continues economic trade with NK in violation of those sanctions. If we could convince China that they could increase their regional prestige and leadership by disarming NK, perhaps we could see some movement in the right direction.

IOW, there really isn't anything that the US can do, at least directly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1162 by 1.61803, posted 08-29-2017 3:48 PM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1164 of 1540 (818525)
08-30-2017 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1162 by 1.61803
08-29-2017 3:48 PM


I for one was glad he stayed on script. Most likely prepared by the pentagon brass.

What would be a good response in your opinion?

Saying that all options are on the table is a meaningless response. Nonetheless, I am not complaining about that.

What I am complaining about were the responses and nonsense from Trump prior to last the missile firings. Example, daring NK to make another threat to which NK responded by threatening Guam. Then when NK announced that they would not bomb Guam, Trump claims that his methods have been effective at teaching NK a lesson, to which NK responds by shooting missiles over Japan.

After all of that Trump finally says essentially nothing. It's about time. It is pretty clear that Kim Jong-un is using threats from the West to help prop himself up domestically. Well, here comes Trump time after time to oblige him with primarily empty rhetoric. Well, at least it is empty when he is not sticking his foot in his mouth. But claiming that Korea belongs to China or some other shite.

The US "looks" weak when it comes to NK because our country and everyone else has been kicking the can down the road for decades.

Wrong. There was nothing to do then, and there is nothing to do now.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1162 by 1.61803, posted 08-29-2017 3:48 PM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1168 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:39 PM NoNukes has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 1165 of 1540 (818568)
08-30-2017 12:00 PM


Radical Cleric Threatens Violence
Typical muslims, oh wait...

http://www.nova-magazine.net/...tart-another-civil-war-video


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Replies to this message:
 Message 1166 by Stile, posted 08-30-2017 12:26 PM DrJones* has not yet responded
 Message 1174 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 5:55 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3044
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 1166 of 1540 (818570)
08-30-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1165 by DrJones*
08-30-2017 12:00 PM


Re: Radical Cleric Threatens Violence
Ha ha... what a loon.

"...Christians will rise from the shadows..."

What, all 6 of them?

I don't think what this guy calls "a Christain" and what everyone else calls "a Christian" are the same things.
Pretty sure he'll be soundly disappointed in the turnout to his rally-call for taking over the country.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1165 by DrJones*, posted 08-30-2017 12:00 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1167 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:37 PM Stile has responded

    
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 1167 of 1540 (818598)
08-30-2017 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1166 by Stile
08-30-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Radical Cleric Threatens Violence
144,000
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1166 by Stile, posted 08-30-2017 12:26 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1170 by Stile, posted 08-31-2017 8:14 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5681
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 1168 of 1540 (818599)
08-30-2017 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by NoNukes
08-30-2017 12:42 AM


NoNukes writes:

Wrong. There was nothing to do then, and there is nothing to do now.

I guess South Korea is doing nothing now also? China also responded stronger than usual. For me these are the markers, how the rest of the world responds. If they get tough with NK, then so should we. That government needs to be leveled. It's a human rights issue for me.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by NoNukes, posted 08-30-2017 12:42 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1169 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 1:45 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 1171 by DrJones*, posted 08-31-2017 9:55 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1169 of 1540 (818605)
08-31-2017 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1168 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:39 PM


I guess South Korea is doing nothing now also? China also responded stronger than usual.

Do you believe that either of these two countries have made an effective response? I do not.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1168 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:39 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1176 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:14 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3044
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1170 of 1540 (818608)
08-31-2017 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1167 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:37 PM


Re: Radical Cleric Threatens Violence
riVeRraT writes:

144,000

Nope. 6.
I've seen them


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1167 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:37 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
7677
78
7980
...
103NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017