Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 120 (8763 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-22-2017 12:36 PM
391 online now:
14174dm, caffeine, Chiroptera, DrJones*, Faith, jar, JonF, Larni, PaulK, ringo, Tangle (11 members, 380 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: aristotle
Post Volume:
Total: 811,855 Year: 16,461/21,208 Month: 2,350/3,593 Week: 463/882 Day: 84/97 Hour: 7/19

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
234Next
Author Topic:   Bring science to the Bible (Bring science to the Church)
mastertrell
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 59 (313229)
05-18-2006 2:25 PM


everyone is talking about how religion is slipping into the classroom or how they want us to have all the possibilities of creationism as a science.(I say include all religions, like Hindu, Islam, native american, norse, etc.. but I digress). If Christians are so eager to put their bible up to science as proof of their theory, then I say it is science's duty to go into the bible and prove and disprove anything it can. Experiments are used to prove and disprove evidence in the scientific terms, I believe we should definitively prove or disprove parts of the bible in a controlled manner.

If we find parts that are proven to be incorrect, we, the scientific community, must go into churches who are reading from that part of the bible and tell the practioners gathered there that that part of the bible is not true and should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.

{Comments from Adminnemooseus: I have added the "(Bring science to the Church)" part to the topic title. I have not modified any content in this message itself, but I do think that in some but not all cases "church" should be substituted for "bible". The Bible is a book, an inanimate object, while the church is a collection of believers in the Bible. While I do think this message does have some content glitches, I am going to promote the individual message to become a new topic in the "Education and Creation/Evolution" forum.

The original "Proposed New Topic" is Bring science to the Bible (Bring science to the Church.}


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by berberry, posted 05-18-2006 6:21 PM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 3 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 6:44 PM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 8 by iano, posted 05-18-2006 7:26 PM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 27 by ikabod, posted 05-19-2006 5:35 AM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 28 by Larni, posted 05-19-2006 8:33 AM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 38 by truthlover, posted 05-19-2006 12:45 PM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 46 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 3:55 PM mastertrell has not yet responded
 Message 57 by achristian1985, posted 02-17-2010 11:30 PM mastertrell has not yet responded

  
berberry 
Suspended Member (Idle past 124 days)
Posts: 1853
From: vicksburg, mississippi
Joined: 11-29-2003


Message 2 of 59 (313287)
05-18-2006 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mastertrell
05-18-2006 2:25 PM


mastertrell writes:

quote:
If Christians are so eager to put their bible up to science as proof of their theory, then I say it is science's duty to go into the bible and prove and disprove anything it can.

Hey, I'm all for anything that calls the bible and religious beliefs into question, but it seems silly to me for scientists to waste time debunking biblical myths.

The bible deals with the supernatural. Science deals with the natural. Science can disprove biblical episodes and religious beliefs only on rational grounds. But the supernatural, by definition, defies rationality, so science is impotent to disprove any of it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mastertrell, posted 05-18-2006 2:25 PM mastertrell has not yet responded

    
freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 59 (313295)
05-18-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mastertrell
05-18-2006 2:25 PM


Hi, I'm new here so bear with me. I am going to be blunt right from the start and say that I am a Biblical Creationist - basically I believe the Bible and take what it says as true and accurate.

Mastertrell, have you ever read the Bible? Have you ever found anything wrong with it? Have you ever studied the Bible and discovered an error? The answer to the last two questions is undoubtly "no" because no one ever has. No one has ever suceeded in proving any part of the Bible false and no one ever will. In fact, all of the people that have tried to disprove it have either a.given up in the process or b.come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ I would invite you to read this http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/default.asp and see for yourself how hard it is to disprove God's word.

Edited by freelancer, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mastertrell, posted 05-18-2006 2:25 PM mastertrell has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Guido Arbia, posted 05-18-2006 6:49 PM freelancer has responded
 Message 6 by jar, posted 05-18-2006 7:09 PM freelancer has responded
 Message 43 by lfen, posted 07-08-2006 3:01 PM freelancer has not yet responded

  
Guido Arbia
Member (Idle past 251 days)
Posts: 545
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 4 of 59 (313297)
05-18-2006 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by freelancer
05-18-2006 6:44 PM


Althought I agree with you 100%, the people of this forum are just gona start comin in here and bashing the living hell out of you until you turn atheist just for making the statement that no one has ever disproven any part of the bible and all who have tried have given up or come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 6:44 PM freelancer has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:17 PM Guido Arbia has not yet responded

  
Alasdair
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 5 of 59 (313299)
05-18-2006 6:49 PM


I think you're mixing up "Christianity" with "anti-science". Not all Christians are creationists, in fact I think that outside of the US, most of them accept evolutionary theory.

But sure, if the chaps who want to "teach the controversy" want creationism taught in schools so badly, then let them teach evolution in Sunday School! After all, you've gotta teach the controversy, right? ;)


    
jar
Member
Posts: 29008
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 6 of 59 (313307)
05-18-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by freelancer
05-18-2006 6:44 PM


Well speaking as a Christian, there is lots and lots of stuff in the Bible that are factually wrong, maybe more that is factually wrong than right.

Biblical Creationism is one of the things that is totally wrong and infact, there is not just one Biblical Creation myth, there are two. It's not an issue of disproving the Bible, it's that so many Christian groups misuse and misunderstand the Bible, what it says and what its purpose is.

That is why every major Christian Church accepts the Theory of Evolution and opposes teaching Biblical Creationism.

It's very important to bring Science to the churches, to try to educate the ignorant Christians that are forcing their ignorance on to the young people in their churches. In the words of teh Clergy Project:

We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 6:44 PM freelancer has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:38 PM jar has responded
 Message 48 by truthlover, posted 11-14-2007 12:31 AM jar has responded

  
freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 59 (313310)
05-18-2006 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Guido Arbia
05-18-2006 6:49 PM


I know, bring it on.

And Alasdair, I'm not mixing terms at all. A true Christian believes that the entire hypothesis of evolutionism is physically, historically and spiritually invalid. A person can easily be "anti-evolution" and not be a Christian but it is entirely impossible to be a Christian and believe in evolution at the same time.

{I'm declaring this message to be "OFF-TOPIC". Also see my reply to this message. - Adminnemooseus}

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Obvious reason.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Guido Arbia, posted 05-18-2006 6:49 PM Guido Arbia has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by iano, posted 05-18-2006 7:30 PM freelancer has not yet responded
 Message 10 by Adminnemooseus, posted 05-18-2006 7:34 PM freelancer has not yet responded
 Message 12 by jar, posted 05-18-2006 7:40 PM freelancer has responded
 Message 13 by Alasdair, posted 05-18-2006 7:54 PM freelancer has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 621 days)
Posts: 6164
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 8 of 59 (313314)
05-18-2006 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mastertrell
05-18-2006 2:25 PM


we, the scientific community, must go into churches who are reading from that part of the bible and tell the practioners gathered there that that part of the bible is not true

Shouldn't the word "tentitive" appear somewhere in this sentence? (third from last word I would suggest)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mastertrell, posted 05-18-2006 2:25 PM mastertrell has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 621 days)
Posts: 6164
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 9 of 59 (313316)
05-18-2006 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by freelancer
05-18-2006 7:17 PM


A true Christian believes that the entire hypothesis of evolutionism is physically, historically and spiritually invalid.

As a true, non-evolution believing Christian I would have to disagree. A 'true' Christian is a person who is 'in Christ' (to use an umbrella descriptive phrase). In Christ a person can believe anything they like after that - inlcuding evolution. Believing something doesn't mean its true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:17 PM freelancer has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3794
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 10 of 59 (313318)
05-18-2006 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by freelancer
05-18-2006 7:17 PM


Let us NOT turn this into a "True Christian" type topic
I repeat:

Let us NOT turn this into a "True Christian" type topic.

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

Other useful links:

Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC, Assistance w/ Forum Formatting, Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics, Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:17 PM freelancer has not yet responded

    
freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 59 (313320)
05-18-2006 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
05-18-2006 7:09 PM


Speaking as a Biblical Creationist and a Christian there is nothing "factually wrong" in the Bible. Period. I personally challenge you to come up with ONE fact of the Bible and prove it wrong. Go ahead, try.

Well, you have that almost right, there is more then one theory for Intelligent Design but a.they aren't myths and b.there is only ONE theory for Biblical Creationism

Every major Christian Church accepts the hypothesis of evolutionism? Since when? I'll admit there are some, but for the most part you really can't call them Christian churches. They're theologically weak, liberal, socialist groups who choose to call themselves a "church" so they can get a tax break.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 05-18-2006 7:09 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Alasdair, posted 05-18-2006 7:55 PM freelancer has responded
 Message 16 by jar, posted 05-18-2006 8:07 PM freelancer has responded
 Message 30 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-19-2006 10:58 AM freelancer has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29008
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 12 of 59 (313323)
05-18-2006 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by freelancer
05-18-2006 7:17 PM


A true Christian believes that the entire hypothesis of evolutionism is physically, historically and spiritually invalid.

There is the classic exclusionary attitude of the little christians, the ones that worship an old anthology of anthologies instead of GOD, the ones that suffer from hubris and that deny the great gift of critical thinking that GOD gave all of us. It's sad. They are the people we really need to pity, to reach out to, to try to educate them if it is not already too late.

A person can easily be "anti-evolution" and not be a Christian but it is entirely impossible to be a Christian and believe in evolution at the same time.

What a sad little commentary, one that shows the christian who could make such a statement is deeply into blasphemy, into denying the very word of GOD, the universe he gave us. To quote again from the Clergy Project:

We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:17 PM freelancer has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 8:02 PM jar has responded
 Message 31 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-19-2006 11:01 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Alasdair
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 13 of 59 (313324)
05-18-2006 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by freelancer
05-18-2006 7:17 PM


That's weird, I don't seem to remember that verse.

Are you the one who decides who and who is not a Christian?

Is denying the very evidence in the rocks of God's earth part of being Christian?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:17 PM freelancer has not yet responded

    
Alasdair
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 14 of 59 (313325)
05-18-2006 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by freelancer
05-18-2006 7:38 PM


quote:
Every major Christian Church accepts the hypothesis of evolutionism? Since when? I'll admit there are some, but for the most part you really can't call them Christian churches. They're theologically weak, liberal, socialist groups who choose to call themselves a "church" so they can get a tax break.

LIke, for example, the Catholic church?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 7:38 PM freelancer has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by freelancer, posted 05-18-2006 8:11 PM Alasdair has not yet responded

    
freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 59 (313328)
05-18-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
05-18-2006 7:40 PM


quote:
A true Christian believes that the entire hypothesis of evolutionism is physically, historically and spiritually invalid.
There is the classic exclusionary attitude of the little christians, the ones that worship an old anthology of anthologies instead of GOD, the ones that suffer from hubris and that deny the great gift of critical thinking that GOD gave all of us. It's sad. They are the people we really need to pity, to reach out to, to try to educate them if it is not already too late.

I'm thinking, I'm writing right now. Writing involves thinking, wouldn't you agree? Therefore I must be thinking and using "the great gift of critical thinking" that you mentioned, but I digress. God gave all of us the ability to think for ourselves (wasn't that nice of him? if he hadn't we all would listen to what all the big people said and always agree with them...) To be honest, I pity you. You seem to think that you have it all down but you're missing the important parts.

And you didn't prove any part of the Bible inaccurate. I wonder why? Maybe because you can't?

You quoted from the Clergy Project - twice now in fact. Is this where you get all your information from? Homosexual, liberal people who take it as their right to change scripture, the very essence of which is our basis as moral humans and as a country? People who deny everything that the Bible teaches and come up with a God to suit themselves? People who, in the very core of what they write and believe, break the 10 cannons? If so, I suggest you go and read the Bible for yourself, maybe then you'd get some moral insight.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 05-18-2006 7:40 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 05-18-2006 8:15 PM freelancer has not yet responded

  
1
234Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017