Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,920 Year: 4,177/9,624 Month: 1,048/974 Week: 7/368 Day: 7/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Making Sense of Evil (Virginia Tech Massacre)
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 9 of 110 (396517)
04-20-2007 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Nuggin
04-20-2007 12:27 PM


Re: Evil?
See I think there's a difference between "selfish" and "evil." The pollution magnate who puts an entire community at risk to save some money is selfish.
The crusader with perfect devotion to his cause, for whom no sacrifice is too great to be asked of others in service to that cause, is evil. Of course he thinks he's doing good. They always do.
The selfish guy you can stop, because his self-interest is the lever you can use to move him. You just change the payout schedule - you make undesired outcomes more costly and less profitable than desired ones. The crusader? No argument can sway a fanatic. Any opposition at all is proof that his cause is just. And the worst part is - you can just talk people into becoming crusaders, like that.
Cho? I think he was mostly crazy. If you've seen his tape, or the transcript of it, it's pretty clear that he was pretty disjointed. But there's no denying that there's an element of religious crusade, too. He did say that he wanted to "die like Christ."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Nuggin, posted 04-20-2007 12:27 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Nuggin, posted 04-20-2007 1:08 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 22 by Utopia, posted 04-20-2007 3:34 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 110 (396525)
04-20-2007 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Nuggin
04-20-2007 1:08 PM


Re: Evil?
If McV is evil, or the 911 hijackers are evil, then we have to say that the Christian cruisades were evil or that the soldiers mislead into war are evil.
I think that if you're following a crusade, or following orders, and never taking a moment to reflect on whether your orders are right or your crusade is just; if there's never that moment of "tentativity" and introspection, then yes, I think you're engaged in evil.
If evil exists it's the tendency of humans to check their moral sense at the door just because they perceive authority, like in the Milgram experiments.
On the other hand, when someone KNOWINGLY alters the facts for their own profit, or preaches to his television audience as a way of financing his blood diamond business, that's evil.
I don't think those are the same thing. Pat Robertson, it's clear, believes his own bullshit. He has no problem with running a diamond mine off the proceeds of his charities because he genuinely believes that it is good for him to do so, and he never stops to wonder if perhaps it isn't.
When people say things like "unswerving faith and devotion", I hear "evil."
It's the person who thinks they are doing good that you can't pursuade.
And that's why I believe that's what constitutes "evil." The selfish can be managed. The crazy can be treated. The evil can only be contained. (I guess I construe evil in this way because of how that relates to justifications for the use of force. The selfish give you options besides the use of force. The evil leave you no choice.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Nuggin, posted 04-20-2007 1:08 PM Nuggin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 04-20-2007 1:27 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 110 (396527)
04-20-2007 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
04-20-2007 1:24 PM


Re: Evil?
Of course, for a different take on evil, there's They Might Be Giants:
quote:
Evil
Evil is his one and only name
Evil
In his mind there is no other game
When your name is Evil that is good
Or so you think
But you're so very wrong
It's evil
But being wrong is right
So then you're good again
Which is the evilest thing of all
Do you find his subtle ways invite you
Does he excite you?
If his contradictions should attract you
Should he distract you
Heaven help you then
You're finished, it's the end
There'll be no retrieval
From the evil
The evil he will do
He's evil
He's Dr. Evil
His name is Evil

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 04-20-2007 1:24 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 110 (396546)
04-20-2007 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Utopia
04-20-2007 3:34 PM


Re: Evil?
In your opinion is there a difference between the crusader for whom no sacrifice is too great and wears it like a badge of honor (i.e. jihadists who make it clear what their goals are and what they will sacrifice to accomplish them) and the person who would consciously lie and mislead about his/her intentions to achieve their goals?
You don't think it's possible for someone to consciously decide that lying and misleading serves the greater good?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Utopia, posted 04-20-2007 3:34 PM Utopia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Nuggin, posted 04-20-2007 8:18 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024