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Author
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Topic: Moral Judgments
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 2 of 259 (173256)
01-03-2005 2:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
01-03-2005 1:07 AM
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I say no, logically I am not, since any reasons I can come up with will beg the question of my providing a ground for that reason, which I do not have. You have no grounds for believing that cutting a 13 year old girl's clitoris off is wrong? Or executing a female because she was raped by an uncle? Can you define grounds for me?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 01-03-2005 1:07 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 41 of 259 (175008)
01-08-2005 10:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 40 by nator
01-08-2005 9:29 AM
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Higher Laws
schra! What does your name mean anyway? Back to topic! First, I believe Jesus says be slow to anger. It certainly says that in proverbs anyway. Digressage. There is no reason to reject the OT or leviticus. Jesus instituted higher laws. What I mean by that is that Jesus' laws override the OT laws. Example: In the old testament the law states "Eye for an eye." Equate that to the law of gravity. Jesus came and set a new law, "Turn the other cheek." Equate that to the law of lift. The law of lift overrides the law of gravity. Leviticus obviously has some stuff in it that doesn't apply to today. If I bang the wife and she happens to start her period, I don't go wash in the river for 7 days and have the local priest declare me clean. Leviticus does have some very relevant stuff for today though. Did you know that everyone in the US Army has an E-tool (Entrenching tool). The main purpose of this device is to bury our feces when we poop. Modern day armies have been carrying these since around the civil war (around the time bacteria was discovered). Guess who was the first (and only army until the 1800s) to have such a device? Isreal, as spelled out in leviticus. Their soldiers were commanded to bring an implement with them and bury their poop.
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by nator, posted 01-08-2005 9:29 AM | | nator has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 44 of 259 (175184)
01-09-2005 9:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 42 by bob_gray
01-08-2005 1:54 PM
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Re: Higher Laws
Could I say common sense and get away with it? There is also a verse in the bible that says, "Go build an ark of gopher wood." But you don't see me running out to Home Depot. I didn't say I was following levitical law by having an E-tool. I was just pointing something interesting out. As to which of the levitical laws we should follow? None, we should follow the laws that our government has set for us (I'll have to look up the chapter/verse in the NT, but in there it says to obey the laws of the land).
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by bob_gray, posted 01-08-2005 1:54 PM | | bob_gray has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 48 of 259 (175378)
01-10-2005 2:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by nator
01-09-2005 10:56 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
It's as wrong as 2 boys kissing.
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by nator, posted 01-09-2005 10:56 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by Rrhain, posted 01-10-2005 2:40 AM | | Tal has not replied | | | Message 55 by nator, posted 01-10-2005 10:00 AM | | Tal has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 49 of 259 (175379)
01-10-2005 2:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 46 by bob_gray
01-09-2005 12:39 PM
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Re: Higher Laws
In the defense of those who believe in the OT but are not building arks God was specifically talking to Noah here. And the levitical law was specifically for Isreal back in the day.
But what if someone tries to use Leviticus to establish the "laws of the land"? Shouldn't we first determine which parts to use and which parts to throw away? I think that if we are going to be using Leviticus we need to firmly establish the criteria for determining what is useful. I really thing that common sense isn't going to be sufficient because it is clear that some things which are obvious to me are not obvious to others and vice versa. Example of a levitical law you would like to see passed?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by bob_gray, posted 01-09-2005 12:39 PM | | bob_gray has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 52 by Rrhain, posted 01-10-2005 2:43 AM | | Tal has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 54 of 259 (175405)
01-10-2005 4:04 AM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Rrhain
01-10-2005 2:43 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
All has not been fulfilled. Ergo, the law is still in effect. I do hope you were circumcised in the correct religious manner. And I certainly hope you've been keeping kosher. Not one jot, not one tittle. It's a good thing it is not up to us to fulfill the law.
Matthew 5:17,18 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Rrhain, posted 01-10-2005 2:43 AM | | Rrhain has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 56 of 259 (175453)
01-10-2005 10:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 55 by nator
01-10-2005 10:00 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
What if I want to kiss your 7 year old daughter? There's nothing wrong with that right?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by nator, posted 01-10-2005 10:00 AM | | nator has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 76 of 259 (175717)
01-11-2005 2:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 74 by Silent H
01-10-2005 4:20 PM
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*Looks at the can of wriggling worms...hides*
However, and this is also beyond dispute, there is absolutely no empirical evidence that sexual activity (in general) is harmful to anyone at any age even when engaged in by anyone else of any other age. Whoo hoo 3 year olds look out!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Silent H, posted 01-10-2005 4:20 PM | | Silent H has not replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 79 of 259 (175735)
01-11-2005 4:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 78 by berberry
01-11-2005 3:49 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
Where in this is it required that I explain why B is morally wrong? Where is it required that I explain why A is morally wrong? Why is A ok and B wrong?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by berberry, posted 01-11-2005 3:49 AM | | berberry has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 80 by berberry, posted 01-11-2005 4:26 AM | | Tal has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 81 of 259 (175744)
01-11-2005 4:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 80 by berberry
01-11-2005 4:26 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
you are required to provide evidence to back the assertion. You made the assertion that boy romantically kissing boy is wrong. A. Let me clarify, it is wrong IMO. B. Old men being with young girls is also wrong IMO. My view on this debate is who can say A or B or both are wrong or right? What standards are we using here? Why do grown men have sex with each other? Simple answer: It turns them on. That is the simple rational behind all of this. If that is the case then why can't an old fogey have sex with a 4 year old (boy or girl?) if that is what turns them on?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by berberry, posted 01-11-2005 4:26 AM | | berberry has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 85 of 259 (175749)
01-11-2005 4:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 83 by berberry
01-11-2005 4:44 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
You still haven't said the first thing to support your original assertion. Sure I have, I said it was my opinion. Ah, so the limiting reagent is to give consent. So that means I can have 4 wives and 2 husbands so long as they all give their consent? And I guess that raises the age of children to about...oh lets say 12. Now I can have sex with 12 year old boy or girls?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by berberry, posted 01-11-2005 4:44 AM | | berberry has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 88 of 259 (175756)
01-11-2005 5:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 87 by Silent H
01-11-2005 5:12 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
How about if I just nibble gently?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by Silent H, posted 01-11-2005 5:12 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by Silent H, posted 01-11-2005 6:42 AM | | Tal has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 90 of 259 (175799)
01-11-2005 9:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 89 by Silent H
01-11-2005 6:42 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
Would it surprise you in the least to know I have a couple of gay friends?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by Silent H, posted 01-11-2005 6:42 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 91 by Silent H, posted 01-11-2005 9:56 AM | | Tal has not replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 128 of 259 (176084)
01-12-2005 2:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 127 by berberry
01-12-2005 2:11 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
He made a bigoted comment about homosexuality and I challenged him on it. Actually you asked me if homosexuality was wrong, and I answered. And why does my statement offend you if you believe homosexuality is not wrong? If you came up to me and told me that heterosexuality is as wrong as a boy kissing a girl, I'd laugh at you and say have a nice life. It wouldn't concern me in the least and I certainly wouldn't be offended by it or consider it bigoted. Now my point with going from homosexuality to pedophilia to polygamy is this: You tell me I have no evidence to support homosexuality being morally wrong. I tell you that you have no evidence to draw the line and tell me that pedophilia or polygamy is wrong. But if you tell me that you draw a line before pedophilia, how can you draw that line but I can't draw it before homosexuality? My question to you is this: Who draws the line? Where is the line drawn?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 127 by berberry, posted 01-12-2005 2:11 AM | | berberry has replied |
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: 12-29-2004
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Message 131 of 259 (176093)
01-12-2005 3:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 129 by berberry
01-12-2005 2:51 AM
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Re: Higher Laws
Tal asks: Who draws the line
quote:
The one who wins the case based on the evidence.
What, here in this form? In court?
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 129 by berberry, posted 01-12-2005 2:51 AM | | berberry has replied |
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