The predictions of Walt Brown

If I may, I would suggest that . . . Should be thrown out, or at least Hangdawg should be warned that this is based on false data. From CD011.2: Dating of Vollosovitch and Dima Mammoths : I would contend that if this topic is picked then these discrepancies should be dealt with first.Also (I think PaulK mentioned this), anyone supporting Brown's views should also explain how Brown's predictions differ from mainstream geology. If the same predictions are made in both Brown's theory and mainstream geology then the predictions are useless in showing how one theory is more accurate than another.

Characteristics of "Rock Ice" compared to three other types of ice can be found here:In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Some SpecificsFrom the same site:"In Alaska and Siberia, scientists84 have found a strange type of massive ice in and under the muck containing mammoth remains. Tolmachoff called it rock ice.85 Rock ice often has a yellow-tinge and contains round or elongated bubbles. Some bubbles are connected, while others, an inch long, are vertically streaked.86 When exposed to the Sun, rock ice, showed a polyhedral, granular structure at the surface, and these granules could usually be easily rubbed off with the finger.87 It looked like compacted hail. " --Brown

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The prediction says "directly beneath undisturbed rock ice or frozen mammoth carcasses." I would imagine this means within a square mile of these features.

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Given that mammoths are the Alaskan state fossil, I also hold out little hope that mammoths and oil reserves are found separately. There are MASSIVE oil reserves underneath Alaska. Barrow, Alaska is very close to Prudhoe Bay (the largest oil reserve in America). This is what one person had to say on their trip up there: So we have stratified earth, mammoths above marine deposits, and all of this very close to the largest oil reserve in N. America.reference: Page Not Found | Guillemot Kayaks

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notice you said "are pretty sure does not exist" leaves some wiggle room. Walts words on the issue, after some impressive looking equations, are these. "the cooling from the compressed water's expansiopn as it escaped to the earth's surface was about equal to the conversion of the compressed energy to the kinetic energy and then to heat. Therefore no net temperature change resulted from the stored compressed energy."

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Ever seen a geyser? That water is under pressure but it doesn't seem to cool it down much.If you still think that Walt is right, could you please post those equations?

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Now, even if a canopy of some kind wouldn't have much water in it on a worldwide scale, say even if it added only an inch of water to the flood, could it not under extreme conditions have been affected in such a way as to help alter the balance of heat coming in or leaving the earth.

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What canopy? Where is the evidence that a canopy ever existed? How could a solid wall of water be suspended in the air without increasing the barometric pressure, and consequently the global temperature, to levels that would not kill all life on earth?

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Also, if, on a small scale, I put a car cigarette lighter, still hot on the floor, then aim a super blast of wind right at it, maybe even add some content of moisture to the wind flow, it would cool off quicker!

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Think about the volumes involved. You have to use a volume of air that is drastically larger than the cigarette lighter. In comparison, there is not enough atmosphere on earth to replicate your experiment. Also, that air is drastically heated, especially those first few blows. You also have the problem of all that moisture increasing the barometric pressure, and consequently a major increase in temperature.

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Another thought, is, what if there was a lot more water in the flood than they think, I mean, say, another mile high of it? What if much of the water was somehow blown, or sucked, or something off the planet, in a cosmic event?

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Where is it? It should visible somewhere. We should certainly find a lot of water on the moon if this were so.

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After all we can't predict earthquakes, who knows, a new look might improve our flawed understanding of real plate action, so we could predict them?

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How does hydroplate theory improve earthquake prediction? Where was Walt Brown before the tsunami's hit Asia? Did he know this was going to happen but didn't feel like saying anything?

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Does this mean you think it is imossible earth had any form of band, or ring?

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How about we start with evidence that there was a ring. Why would we put something into a hypothesis for which there is no evidence?

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roxrkool, I guess I was sort of wrong, the record is 330 mph, though it did say freefall speeds are approximately 120 mph.

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Have a sky diver jump out of the space shuttle while its in space and measure skydiver's speed just before he enters earth's atmosphere. I think you might be surprised at the result.

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Ned, I wasn't aware that Walt thought there could exist an excessive ice layer in the upper atmosphere. If you ever get a chance to read the bible please read the first chapter of genesis. It says there was a water layer above, and a water layer below the firmament that the creatures that fly flew within. It sounds more like a cloud layer, like is not that what creationist believe will be expressed more after the Great Earthquake shakes down the mountains, a greater cloud covering pressing upward. I suppose with all this water pressing upward there might of been a bit of ice expressed on the top of the clouds.

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The problem is that the evidence does not support the literal biblical account. It doesn't support Walt's hydroplate theory either. If you disagree then we can get into specifics.

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Columbus belief the earth was round, because of his faith.

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Everyone knew that the earth was round during the time of Columbus. There was no faith involved. Actually, Columbus thought the circumference of the earth was significantly less than it actually was and he stocked his ships accordingly. If he had not ran into north america his crew would have starved to death. Remember, Columbus's voyage was trying to discover a western passage to Asia. In that respect, his voyage was an utter failure.

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Walt is bringing accountability to the Sciences, not because he's delusional but because he is a master scientist that happens to be a Christian.

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Wow, this one is priceless. If Walt is about accountability, then why doesn't he present his ideas to actual geologists instead of just creationists? Why is it that christian geologists denounce Walt just as loudly as atheist ones?

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The bible in respect to the verse that says compass, another meaning of compass means circuit. Meaning it might be necessary for reversals so to complete the circuit and that it has nothing to do with magnetic north and south flip flopping.

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Another use of the word "compass" is the tool used to draw circles. So when the Lord set his compass on the earth He made it into a circle. That's the way I read it. (sorry if I ruined everyone's fun)

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I agree though that when the rocks cooled the polarity was captured, but still undecided if it has anything to do with the north/south pole actually switching. Its probably just a normal phenomenom needed so to complete the circuit.

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Defining "compass" as "circuit" doesn't make a whole lot of sense within the verse, so I don't see how you can apply it here. If one rock records one polarity and another rock records the opposite polarity, doesn't it make sense that the polarity changed between the solidification of each rock?

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Sorry? Then why did you do it? There are times when staying quiet is appropriate.

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Hey, look at my username. It would be out of character if I didn't.But more seriously, Tom in the message above says "The bible in respect to the verse that says compass, another meaning of compass means circuit." You really don't think that Tom came up with that definition out of the blue and totally forgot about the compass used in drawing circles, do you? It seems apparent, at least to me, that Tom looked up the word compass and decided that "tool used to draw a circle" refuted everything he was putting forth. He then used "circuit" to draw even more outrageous hypotheses. I was tired of the tap dancing, so I cut to the chase.[buttkiss]If it makes you feel any better, you do have a handsome smile.[/buttkiss]

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I am coming to the conclusion personally, that under present conditions, a canopy is not really a serious liklihood.

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That is the conclusion that many creationists have come to as well. Don't worry, you aren't an old earther yet.

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OK, now someone was going to have a go at walt's equations I gave the link for, regarding ccoling water so the continents could move over, still waiting.

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From In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Conclusion I get: All of these equations show that the compression energy was released upon decompression. No surprise here. These equations do not deal with the starting temperature of the water, which was well above boiling. Walt still needs to get rid of this heat which was not removed upon decompression.

And just to add to what JonF posted, the temperature of water at depth is not due to compression but due to the heat of the mantle. The compression causes the water to stay in liquid form instead of being converted to steam making the energy more concentrated. This energy, upon decompression, is then spread to the atmosphere. This massive release of steam would drastically increase the barometric pressure and global temperatures. So much so that life as we know it could not exist. It would make for some nice shredded beef burritos, though.