The predictions of Walt Brown

Well It seems creationists haven't yet picked too many of these the way things are set up. I have a Walt Brown type concern, but it may not fit well, on this thread. Walty says that the water under the earth was under pressure. He apparently thinks this has some type of 'cooling effect' which would more or less in his mind balance the heat involved as the continents split in the Atlantic, and slid away. Is he that off the beam, that he is dead wrong on that point? In other words, as the continents slid on the water underneath, it reduced the friction, and also this cooling from the pressurized water helped.

I notice you said "are pretty sure does not exist" leaves some wiggle room. Walts words on the issue, after some impressive looking equations, are these. "the cooling from the compressed water's expansiopn as it escaped to the earth's surface was about equal to the conversion of the compressed energy to the kinetic energy and then to heat. Therefore no net temperature change resulted from the stored compressed energy."
Now, even if a canopy of some kind wouldn't have much water in it on a worldwide scale, say even if it added only an inch of water to the flood, could it not under extreme conditions have been affected in such a way as to help alter the balance of heat coming in or leaving the earth. If not, or not much, even with the volcanic dust, etc, stirred up, maybe something helped in that area somewhat at the time. Also, if, on a small scale, I put a car cigarette lighter, still hot on the floor, then aim a super blast of wind right at it, maybe even add some content of moisture to the wind flow, it would cool off quicker! There was a lot of moisture, and a mighty wind around that time, could they help cool things down? Another thought, is, what if there was a lot more water in the flood than they think, I mean, say, another mile high of it? What if much of the water was somehow blown, or sucked, or something off the planet, in a cosmic event? Would the extra water, now no longer here, affect all formulas?
In other words, if there are things that are conceivable that could have happened, how can we rule it out? Like if we want to see how a distant star pulses, we conceive of what it could be made of to account for that effect. Now, if it were neutrinos, or something, we might then say, why it would have, or could have such an effect. So why not conceive of what could have happened in the flood, likewise?
After all we can't predict earthquakes, who knows, a new look might improve our flawed understanding of real plate action, so we could predict them?

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How does hydroplate theory improve earthquake prediction?

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Well, just that, since the current old ages ideas are falling flat as the universe is now said to be, maybe it's time to get to the truth, whether walty was warm on this or not.

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Where is it? It should visible somewhere

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Maybe a quantum fluctuation or wormhole, or something we are not familiar with yet, or dimension portal? Although it does seem there may have been or be, water on mars, etc. basically, we don't know.

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What canopy? Where is the evidence that a canopy ever existed?

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Well, if there was one, there ain't no more, so lets see if anything on earth could be a remnant of one. I was wondering today, actually, why would it have to be a canopy, and not say rings? We look at Saturn for most unusual properties to the rings there, apparently under study for possible superconductivity properties!
"Saturn's rings are composed primarily of particles of water ice. Voyager photos of the rings show a reddish tinge, indicating that iron oxide or a carbon-rich material may also be present
Yahoo"
In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Conclusion
Well in dispersing radiation out to space there is a balance here, and it can be altered, maybe it was once. In the rings on Saturn we seem to have water ice particles! Now also maybe some "carbon rich" material. Why I even look at it is not for the water in the flood, but for potential effects such a ring may have had on radiation, and, what if earth's ring, say, was stuffed with some carbon rich, or even some C02 type material? Isn't that what limestone can come from, like in caves where it can change back and forth under certain conditions? This might then take away for a need for some poor sealife to have had to slowly make the stuff for millions of years! Also, as the ring 'broke up' could it not have had a cooling effect. After all, one plan on the books (too expensive & risky) is to send up giant 'reflectors' in orbit, covering 1 % of sky, that would balance out the effect (heating) of all the greenhouse emmisions and such! A nice ring coming apart might have helped with some of this type
effect!

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Ever seen a geyser? That water is under pressure but it doesn't seem to cool it down much

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Only in Yellowstone. There, it came from the pocket underneath that is hot, and not far below, so I wonder if that is a reasonable picture for a global scale, where there is miles of the stuff coming up quite a distance? Also, I have heard the theories of the center of the erth called into some degree of question. Not just the 'hollow earth' folks. (These folks are obviously frowned on by the 'flat universe society' folks)

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If and when contradictory evidence surfaces, we'll reconsider

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What about contradictory interpretations of the evidence?

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But we don't throw up our hands and give up. We go with the best explanation we have that fits all the available evidence. and it works pretty well.

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I think it can work even better if we fit the evidence to the 'best explanation' of the flood God gave us.

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It might (although an extra mile of water is teeny-weeny compared to the mantle, and pretty small compared to the amount of water needed for a global flood).

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Do you understand I was talking about an extra mile high worldwide, on top of the flood that covered the highest mountains?

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Nope. Your super blast of wind moves the heat around some, but the overall efect is the same. There's no wind outside the atmosphere,

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What about solar wind? Besides, If the source of the wind was extra terrestial, We would not see it any more. Hey, wild idea, how about a dissinterating planetary ring, falling on earth, could not that generate some wind?! (directly or in effect)

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I notice you said "are pretty sure does not exist" leaves some wiggle room.

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Not really. It's about the same as saying "pretty sure that the sun will appear tomorrow

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Wasn't there a fairly new theory where (I don't buy it for a minute) they say there were two moons here, or something one only is left. I think they needed to try to come up with a plausible sounding way to explain how our moon just doesn't fit into their older theories. Anyhew, I figure if you guys can dissappear a moon, I can dissapear a canopy or some rings!

No, it's why it is a better approach. It runs 'rings' around the competition.

Well, first of all if you are referring to my ring thing, can't blame that on walt. He says, I believe that the stuff may all have come from the waters under the earth. Even I would think that, even if a lot of lime was introduced, this wouldn't mean that there would have been plenty around from sealife, etc, already.

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Yup. The energy released (there's a huge difference in potential energy between a planetary ring in space and the parts of a planetary ring on Earth, and that energy would have to be released as heat) would sterilize the planet and probably melt the crust. It would probably cause some winds, too, but nothing living would be left to feel them.

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Does this mean you think it is imossible earth had any form of band, or ring? Or is it just that how you think a ring would dissipate would be likely resulting in more heat. Now,I hope it isn't having to do with the little reflector part. I don't think a ring would break up, really like that. But it does seem probable that a ring, or band around earth could have a range of effects on many things, including temperature. As far as leaving a trace, what about the lime (c02) factor I brought up?
I think also you may be rendering a premature verdict, because, has a ring theoretically really even been looked at, and how things would be if it it were to break up. First of all, really, what a ring is really even exactly made of, besides 'some carbon rich' stuff. Then, how many types of rings could there be, and how it applies to earth. Walt envisions the seam ripping all around the world, like a baseball, in the mid oceanic mountain areas, with water jetting high up, some even into space, carrying debris to become asteroids, and such. With all this new water, and water vapor, and rocks, and stuff suddenly being introduced into an atmosphere, and space, is it any wonder the ring was affected? Like a rainbow, when the sun decreases can no longer exist. I have to appeal your verdict. Now, in the ending of the ring, besides a new source for much of earth's limestone formation, (?)
"Though they look continuous from the Earth, the rings are actually composed of innumerable small particles each in an independent orbit. They range in size from a centimeter or so to several meters. " "The ring particles seem to be composed primarily of water ice, but they may also include rocky particles with icy coatings" " Voyager confirmed the existence of puzzling radial inhomogeneities in the rings called "spokes" which were first reported by amateur astronomers (left). Their nature remains a mystery, but may have something to do with Saturn's magnetic field"
http://ringmaster.arc.nasa.gov/saturn/saturn.html
There were some concerns about things like apparent magnetic reversals around flood year, also, walt mentioned, seems the rings could be brought into play here as well. Walt saysI think also, that it is thought giant frozen pieces of water came down around flood time, freezing some mammoths and things instantly as they landed, I notice in the ring article here some pieces are up to 'several meters'! Now, how is it, if we take all this water-ICE that would be in a ring, and drop some of it on earth, it is necessarily hot? Limestone, magnetic effects, new climate, water, ice, in cosmic proportions all available to add to the mix!

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Since it will land at about 18,000 miles per hour, yes, it will be hot. Remember the Space Shuttle? And even if it weren't heated to vapor by atmospheric drag, what do you think would happen to a bullet made of ice when it hits something at five miles per second?

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OK. But maybe we can add in a few things here to lessen the first rough take on this. On offer, then, is what if said ice was falling in deep water? (world was said to be covered by it about then). Or, could all the water walt has shooting up from underneath almost like thousands of miles of it at once, somehow reduce a little, the decent speed of some of the ice falling down from the ring? Is there actually a way, (and I believe we don't fully understand gravity (?)) like possible magnetic reversals, earth's gravity was somewhat effected in the tumult? Also, since a ring rings all around a planet, could the gravity of the moon somewhat affect parts of ice, kinda pulling at it enough to slow it a bit? Or, since there are unknown properties in Saturns rings, as mentioned, even under suspicion of having superconducting properties, could there have been some interaction, or reaction with the sun, or atmosphere, that could of worked in a good flood way. For that matter, was the preflood atmosphere even somewhat different (more or less hydrogen, oxygen, etc.) so again we have an effect here? Also, if our ring was particularly carbon rich, say carbon-filthy rich, would these little particles drastically potentially alter the equation?
I look up at clouds, and see they aren't falling at 180 000 mph, yet I can get wet somehow from them, so could there have been some form of intermediate effect, so maybe things just didn't fall like a brick? What if there was even (heaven forbid) little or no water in the ring? ( the 'main sqeeze' here for flood waters, being the underground stuff). These are just a few ideas. I mean, even, say, what if there was two rings (3 etc?) where the ring closest the earth affected stuff coming from outer rings. Not that they were magnetic, but even if they didn't repel each other, again, maybe some reaction?

"Since the surface area of a hailstone (up to some size of say a meter in diamter) is large compared to the weight the "hail" would slow down dramatically before it reached the surface."I guess if material from a ring tended to clump into real big pieces, this would really slow it down!

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If you still think that Walt is right, could you please post those equations?

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I did post these earlier, but you may have missed it, as it was right with another link here they are.
In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Conclusion

Normally that's what I would think. I thought it was being said that light things, if larger would slow a little. Makes sense it only applies in atmosphere, Guess you got me on that one.

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I was just emphasizing to cosmo that ice coming in from orbit would have a much high velocity than simple hail

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Let me emphasize also that we don't need any ring moisture for a flood. Then, all the other possible factors I listed. Someone had pointed out they believed Walt's water shooting up would not have enough velocity to get to space. One reason I tried to provide all the water-ice one could ever need or imagine, being able at least, to fall like Walt thought. Another thought..snowflakes fall slowly. If the ring, was a large part carbon material, could it not assume some form, you know, like a giant snowstorm of falling chalk like particles? Then, we could provide you with all the lime stuff gently, and the water like stuff, perhaps not so gently.

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You seem to be wishing to support a ring.
What holds it up?

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So then, to sum it up, any conceivable ring(s) around earth, that would have broken up, would have had too much of a heat problem to be considered? With the huge orbital speed, and all. -?
If so, is there any hope for even a modest canopy?

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Define modest, how thick is it? how high is it in the atmosphere? What is its total volume? How is it suspended in the atmosphere in violation of all the laws of physics?

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I don't know. Sonds like it has more hope than the ring idea, though. Since Walt has (and I know he doesn't buy a canopy either) way to explain flood water, I just wanted a little canopy that might have no rainbows, and could at least give me enough falling ice type stuff to cover the mammoths etc. And if it can be real gigantic, maybe a bunch can fall mars way, and a few other places. If possible I'll take one with loads of C02 or something similar, this is even more important than water. Perhaps some hydrogen and stuff, so we can totally alter our pre flood atmosphere. Hec, what can you give me, doc?
You know, we've seen so little of inside the earth, and depend a lot on seismic readings, lately they are kinda weird. Some thing they speckulate is iron of some kind, 1500 miles long in the center of the earth, moving many times faster than the plates, and making north south readings of waves travel faster than east west ones, because they think of the way this thing reflects them. Seems like there's some room here to question the theories that be! Hey, New Jerusalem is 1500 miles long, you don't think...ha.
No, if that baby is hiding nearby, I'd look for it in a hollow moon, it's just about the perfect size!
I'm gonna have to go way back, and see what it was about walt's theories I actually was trying to talk about here!
Oh yes, I think it was how could we cool the earth down so we could get those blasted continents to slide pretty quick. Guess my best bet is that the whole earth theories sre wrong, and there really wasn't all that heat to account for!?

Even if it's way up there? How high is too high? Besides, what do you mean by "that much"? Maybe I don't think there is near 'that much'! And how about the 'other mysterious elements in there', even if there ain't much water, approach? Gimme some small hope here doc.
By the way a funny thought about my last post. I noticed the earth core 'crystal' was 1500 miles long. Upon reflection, I bet dollars to doughnuts, it isn't 1500 miles wide, as heaven, or 'new jerusalem' would be, I'll bet it's bigger, as hell would likely be! Now Heaven would actually fit as a pyramid shaped object inside the moon, within a small degree of error! Even those evo christian scientists types would probably believe at least, in those two items?