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Author | Topic: Has natural selection really been tested and verified? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Lyx2no writes: I don't know whether anyone has bothered to mention it to you but mutations are irrelevant to natural selection. I know that Darwin's idea of natural selection was that some life forms that were best suited to the environment would survive better then those that didnt. But I thought that modern evolutionists taught that as species spread and became isolated, natural selection would choose the ones whose gene mutations made them most fit for their environment and eventually they developed into new species.(ie macroevolution) You seem to be saying that Mutations are not required to form new species, is that correct?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
lyx2no writes: Natural selection will work on any variety from any source that differentially effect the reproductive success of the individual members. ok, so If i have a baby which survives, thats natural selection taking place???
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
WoundedKing writes: If for some reason the population becomes divided then genetic drift may cause these incompatible genetic traits to become fixed in different populations. In that case if they consolidated into one region again we would expect to see little if any successful breeding between the populations and we would consider them to have become distinct species. could this happen in human populations and has it happened?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Huntard writes: Natural selection is the process by which heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive whats the differnce between this and mutation?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
what is it with 'us'
sheesh what is it with you? Huntard attempted to show that mutation and natural selection are different his sentence stated that natural selection produces 'inheritable traits' My question, which you failed to answer, was what is the difference between these 'inheritable traits' and mutations? If you cant answer, then dont.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Huntard writes: No it doesn't. It states that it makes those heritable traits more common, not that it produces them. ok so this takes me back to my original question to you What is the difference between mutations and inheritable traits? You said that mutations are changes in dna. You also said that NS favors those inheritable traits. So, are 'mutations' the same 'inheritable traits' you are refering to? Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Huntard writes: No, the DNA is inheritable traits. Mutations are changes to those inheritable traits. When there are changes, NS starts to work on them, because the environment hasn't changed, but the traits of the individual have. Whether it is a positive or negative trait doesn't matter, NS will act upon it. It will also act when the environment changes, yet the traits remain the same. ok, so there must be a lot of mutation occuring in order for there to be so much diveristy in life forms Is this an accurate assumption?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Wounded King writes: The possible exception is in the form of pre-mating isolation in behavioral rather than genetic terms since some insular ethnic groups prefer to keep marriages within their own populations. But this is a social rather than a biological barrier. thats what im intersted in...biological barriers and the reason is because if it occurs among other species and if its a part of evolution, then it would surely happen among humans too
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
that was an entertaining read
and i mean that in all sincerity Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Coyote writes: There are changes among the various human groups; the Human Races classes I took detailed a lot of these changes. But none resulted in speciation; all human populations are of one species and fully capable of interbreeding. do you see speciation occuring any time soon and if it were to happen, what would be the precursor?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
DrAdequate writes: It's evolution: it's a change in the composition of the gene pool. It's not the evolution on the scale that creationists turn blue in the face trying to deny, but that doesn't stop it from being evolution. why do they call it 'evolution' and not some other term which more accuarately describes the adaptation of the finchs to a changed environment?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
DrAdequate writes: Evolution is the accurate term. There is no "more accurate" term. well then that explains why we creationist get all hot and bothered about the term 'evolution' its change has been so subtle over the years that we think of it in its original form, namely darwinian evolution of the species. that all creatures evolved from pre existing creatures, including humans. Perhaps if the new format was publicised and explained about how it is different to its original meaning, we'd be more accepting of the term.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
DrAdequate writes: That's still what it means. The finch species under discussion was, patently, evolving. What did they evolve into? and why did the research of Peter Grant and Lisle Gibbs see a reversal of that 'evolution' when the climate changed. They found that the beaks of later generations changed again and again going from large beaks to small depending on the climate. And also, why did they see that some of the different 'species' could interbreed and produce offspring?? That surely indicates that they were still the same species even though there were observable changes. the finches were still finches weren't they?
DrAdequate writes: Evolution is any heritable change to a lineage. but surely you can see how this is quite different from Darwin who went beyond small observable changes. He wrote that all the millions of species alive were the descendants of just a few creatures. He said they slowly evolved by extremely slight modifications. you are speaking about one very small part of a bigger picture. Creationists are looking at the bigger picture.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined:
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we usually have fairly civil discussions here and it makes evc worth coming back to
please dont throw a spanner in the works by being rude We dont all agree, thats what makes this board work...but it wont work if it becomes a catfight.
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