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Author Topic:   Has natural selection really been tested and verified?
Arphy
Member (Idle past 4461 days)
Posts: 185
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-23-2009


(1)
Message 174 of 302 (537256)
11-27-2009 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Bolder-dash
11-27-2009 9:57 PM


Re: Back to Basics
Hi Bolder-dash
This has gotten a bit complicated and I just want you guys to be on the same page, so maybe this works, or maybe not, I'm willing to give it a go.
I am not an evo, but hopefully this definition sits alright with them (note, I am not trying to give a biology lesson, I am just trying to show some common ground).
As such NS doesn't have any effect on evolutionary change (well, depends on what you mean by evolutionary change). If you mean "change" in organisms then this "change" occurs through mutations. If you mean "change" in ecosystems, then these changes are because of NS acting on organisms. So NS does not change a particular organism, but mutations do. NS selects whole genomes, It works with what is already there, it doesn't add anything new, it may "highlight" a feature of a group of organisms or "discriminate" against a feature but it doesn't actually change anything in the organisms themselves. So yes, i agree with the evos, NS and RM are completly different topics. They are both a vital parts in the general theory of evolution but as such are very different components.
RM is about change in individual organisms, NS is about change in populations of organisms.
The above alright? Maybe the last line was all that was needed. Not sure if everything was expressed fantasticly, but please let's find some common ground.
I may be in disagreement with the evos here but, Coming back to your initial post I would say that evolutionists seem to portray RM and existing variation as the driver of the theory of evolution and NS is the driver of the General theory of evolution.

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 Message 170 by Bolder-dash, posted 11-27-2009 9:57 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

Arphy
Member (Idle past 4461 days)
Posts: 185
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-23-2009


Message 175 of 302 (537258)
11-27-2009 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by RAZD
11-27-2009 10:37 PM


Re: Back to Basics - so what do you want?
Hi RAZD
I was just looking at your definition of evolution and noticed something. Isn't "Evolution is the change in the frequency distribution of hereditary traits in breeding populations from generation to generation." really just a definition of Natural selection? I mean, this doesn't really make make any reference to variation or mutations at all? What is the difference between your definition for evolution and your definition for NS "Natural selection is the process by which heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive and successfully reproduce become more common in a population over successive generations."? It seems to say the same thing except using different words. I mean "change in frequencey" is basically natural selection. Isn't it?

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 Message 172 by RAZD, posted 11-27-2009 10:37 PM RAZD has replied

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