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Author Topic:   How does Complexity demonstrate Design
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 321 (117382)
06-22-2004 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
06-09-2004 5:59 PM


quote:
I Can't get this Logic "Because it is Complex it must have Designed"
Its far more logical to believe God did it then it happened on its own. All observations in the present show things like DNA and even the simplest cell are far to complex to arise from some premeval pond.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DC85, posted 06-09-2004 5:59 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 06-22-2004 12:49 AM almeyda has replied

almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 321 (117699)
06-22-2004 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
06-22-2004 12:49 AM


quote:
Actually, DNA is very, very simple
- There is enough information capacity in a single human cell to
store the Encyclopedia Britannica, all 30 volumes of it, 3 or 4 times over.
- The amount of information that could be stored in a pinheads volume of DNA is equivalent to a pile of paperback books 500 times as high as the distance from the earth to the moon.
- No one could believe a computer could make itself into such a complex almost thinking type machine, no one would say well maybe in a million yrs anything can happen, yet a pinhead of DNA could hold 100 million times more information than a 40gig hard drive.
- The genetic code is not the outcome of raw chemistry, but of elaborate decoding machinery. Such a system must be fully in place before it could work at all, a property called irreducible complexity, this means that it is impossible to be built on natural selection working with small changes.
- This complexity is evidence of a designer. A house which can be built with just basic materials could never be believed well through natural processes it happen on its own. We know it must have been designed. This is why complexity is evidence of design, & design is evidence of a designer.

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almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 321 (118112)
06-24-2004 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by jar
06-23-2004 12:54 AM


Re: Let's take these one at a time.
This is taken from Jonathan Sarfatis - DNA: marvelous messages or mostly mess?
quote:
Such a system must be fully in place before it could work at all, a property called irreducible complexity. This means that it is impossible to be built by natural selection working on small changes.
The ‘letters’ of DNA have another vital property due to their structure, which allows information to be transmitted: A pairs only with T, and C only with G, due to the chemical structures of the basesthe pair is like a rung or step on a spiral staircase. This means that the two strands of the double helix can be separated, and new strands can be formed that copy the information exactly. The new strand carries the same information as the old one, but instead of being like a photocopy, it is in a sense like a photographic negative. The copying is far more precise than pure chemistry could manageonly about 1 mistake in 10 billion copyings, because there is editing (proof-reading and error-checking) machinery, again encoded in the DNA. But how would the information for editing machinery be transmitted accurately before the machinery was in place? Lest it be argued that the accuracy could be achieved stepwise through selection, note that a high degree of accuracy is needed to prevent ‘error catastrophe’the accumulation of ‘noise’ in the form of junk proteins. Again there is a vicious circle (more irreducible complexity).
Also, even the choice of the letters A, T, G and C now seems to be based on minimizing error. Evolutionists usually suppose that these letters happened to be the ones in the alleged primordial soup, but research shows that C (cytosine) is extremely unlikely to have been present in any such ‘soup.’ Rather, Dnall Mac Dnaill of Trinity College Dublin suggests that the letter choice is like the advanced error-checking systems that are incorporated into ISBNs on books, credit card numbers, bank accounts and airline tickets. Any alternatives would suffer error catastrophe.
The circle of life-
-All living things have encyclopedic information content, a recipe for all their complex machinery and structures.
-This is stored and transmitted to the next generation as a message on DNA ‘letters,’ but the message is in the arrangement, not the letters themselves.
-The message requires decoding and transmission machinery, which itself is part of the stored ‘message.’
-The choices of the code and even the letters are optimal.
-Therefore, the genetic coding system is an example of irreducible complexity.

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