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Author Topic:   Where do Creationists think the Theory of Evolution comes from?
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 8 of 109 (259603)
11-14-2005 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Whirlwind
11-11-2005 11:12 AM


Where Did the ToE Come From...
Actually, many YECs are convicted that extreme ToEism (i.e., when taken to the extent of the natural academy of science) is: Anti-ID, anti-Bible, Anti-Christ, etc., and total folly. Many a YEC's *motive* seems to lay in the following 2 scripture passages:
1) Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
2) Rom 1:18-29 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, ... (etc.)
3) That Christ Himself (the Christian-YEC's only hope for Salvation, Holiness, Eternal Life, Eternal Love, etc.) is inferred to be a *punctuated equilibrium mutant* (left over from the Cambrian) might (methinks) make a few Creationists question *science*.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Whirlwind, posted 11-11-2005 11:12 AM Whirlwind has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Whirlwind, posted 11-14-2005 10:59 AM Philip has replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 10 of 109 (259942)
11-15-2005 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Whirlwind
11-14-2005 10:59 AM


Re: Where Did the ToE Come From...
Sorry if I drifted off topic WW.
(WW, I *quoted* because my own words are weak, pathetic, and almost always off-target. I detect you are *open* to a little *dinner* discussion, however, so here goes...)
Are you saying that people publicise the ToE because they are evil and are trying to be better than God?
YES: *Demonic Pride* (in ALL of its humble forms and origins) seems to me the major problem of *ToE religion* (hypocritically playing science), the real source of the ToE.
*Puffed up scientists and sadduces* that proudly dismiss ID seem perverted and vegetative yet professedly perverted and vegetative. Note my pathetic avatar showing a *gay darwin* tossing out a tadpole and expecting evolution of everything.
Now didn't those (Rom 1.21-28) scriptures do a far better job exposing the idolatry and fornication of extreme ToEists than my puny words and avatar?
WW, you seem like a very nice person, nonsarcastic and non-bigoted ... looking for evidences and truth. But if you are professedly atheistic and dismiss ID (like the natural academy of science fiction) please excuse me from *dinner* now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Whirlwind, posted 11-14-2005 10:59 AM Whirlwind has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Whirlwind, posted 11-15-2005 12:54 PM Philip has replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 13 of 109 (260040)
11-15-2005 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Zhimbo
11-15-2005 1:04 PM


Religiously Motivated Anti-science?
Funny how I tend to think of creationism as religiously motivated anti-science.
Why? Admittedly, many YECs are suspicious of science authority as making false generalizations of evolution (i.e., when applying Evo-scientific methodology to quarks, universes, first-causes, *punctuated* evo-mutants, etc.) but "anti-science" ... seems false to me.
I concede, however, that Morris here seems *overly-intrigued* with zany *Satanic* speculations (perhaps a fad of the late 80's) than historical etiologies (i.e., Darwin, Huxley, etc.) or even scriptural etiologies (i.e., Hebrews 11.3 Romans 1.21-28 (above)) ... of the mega-ToE.
But many X-tian YECS seem to strongly agree that ToE-ism insidiously and irreverently became an ungodly *way-of-life* (science?) as per Romans 1.21-28.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Zhimbo, posted 11-15-2005 1:04 PM Zhimbo has not replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 14 of 109 (260067)
11-15-2005 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Whirlwind
11-15-2005 12:54 PM


Re: Where Did the ToE Come From...
Thanks for your patient reply.
I've got a few broad points that I'd like to bring up...
I'm a bit confused about the definition of the word "vegetative" in this sense.
This is off-topic, WW, so I'll be brief.
That word *vegetative* is a tentative word only, WW (because my vocab sucks). I'm concerned that the natural academy of science is against the teaching of
1) spiritual influences in persons,
2) ID (see the Kansas news)
3) theistic beneficience upon creatures and creation,
4) Eternal Salvation for us losers, etc.
... as if we're all *scientifically* on the same level as tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots, slime, quarks, *sub-quarks* (oops), ... and totally lacking intelligence (...not being intelligently designed and all).
(NOTE: I apologize to WW, Admins, and lurkers for getting off-topic for WW's sake. This post needs no response...)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Whirlwind, posted 11-15-2005 12:54 PM Whirlwind has not replied

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 Message 15 by nwr, posted 11-15-2005 9:27 PM Philip has replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 16 of 109 (260214)
11-16-2005 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by nwr
11-15-2005 9:27 PM


Re: ToE Etiologies...
The objection is to teaching these in the science class. If they are taught in philosophy or religion classes, the national academy would have nothing to say on that.
Again this is way off-topic (Admins, WW, please overlook) ... I stand somewhat corrected NWR (i.e., with the NAS grammar). But while we're *straining knats and swallowing camels* I've read:
The NAS serves to "investigate, examine, experiment, and report upon any subject of science or art" (Server Error).
Furthermore: philosophy or religion classes seem conspicuously and *constitutionally* absent in H.S. curriculums.
Now, back to the topic of malicious ToE Etiologies ... the NAS itself:
Here's a front page lie: "...scientists universally accept that the cosmos, our planet, and life evolved ... (thus) creationism has no place in any science curriculum at any level." (http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/)
...Ouch

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Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-16-2005 12:06 PM Philip has not replied
 Message 18 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-16-2005 12:31 PM Philip has replied
 Message 22 by Omnivorous, posted 11-17-2005 3:54 PM Philip has replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 23 of 109 (261066)
11-18-2005 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Omnivorous
11-17-2005 3:54 PM


Re: Art
...Very well

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Omnivorous, posted 11-17-2005 3:54 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 4753 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 24 of 109 (261081)
11-18-2005 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Adminnemooseus
11-16-2005 12:31 PM


Re: That "art" word
Thank you for your thoughtful (and considerate) feedback. I'll drop it (at this time) based on your tentative impression.
(To jar, and others; based on Admin's impression and my own, I view this is as becoming some sort of *begging the point(s) or something* and is getting increasingly off-topic. Thus, please excuse me from this topic.)

This message is a reply to:
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