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Author | Topic: Chat/Comment thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The point is the same one I have made through out this thread.
You have a right to try to persuade a Nation State that YOUR position is better, but no right to impose YOUR idea of what is best on that Nation. Edited by jar, : appalin spallinAnyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 377 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Laws can never, ever ensure more freedom than you have without them. Freedom is a finite quality. Just laws, that apply to everyone, work to ensure that it is equally distributed. Equality and maximum personal freedom are at the very core of Western society. They are not at the very core of some other societies.
How do you measure better vs. worse living? You know it when you see it. You know it subjectively. It is certain that all the things that make your life better will not necessarily make my life better. I think that there are some things that will necessarily make everyone's life better. Maximum personal freedom that is equally distributed is one of them. Who in the world wishes that they had less freedom than someone else?
How do freedoms and liberties automatically translate to better living? In the same way that eating food translates into not being hungry. It is the way of things. We have evolved to feel happier when we are free. It probably has something to do with survival. ________ My contention is that those of us who believe in maximum personal freedom and equality are obligated to try and make it true for everyone.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3671 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
You have a right to try to persuade a Nation State that YOUR position is better, but no right to impose YOUR idea of what is best on that Nation. Why do Nation States get such special treatment. Surely if my way is best (and believe me, it is) and I have the means of imposing that way on any Nation State I select (believe me, I'm working on it) then I should do so.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Thank you for that great explanation of why Nation States should get what you call "special treatment".
It is really an important point. Should those with the power to impose their position on others have the right to do so?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3671 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
Should those with the power to impose their position on others have the right to do so? Is that not the way of the world? I may well be born into a democracy, but I may disagree with everything that democracy forces upon me. Is that power any more "right" than forcing the government of a Nation State to do something? Let's say I have enough leverage against an African government to force it to do something, and sufficiently small footprint that they can't stop me. Would it always be wrong to exercise that power, irrespective of the demand? If that is "wrong", then I guess I'll just use my power to enforce my own coup d'etat and take over as that goverment. As soon as I am sufficiently established, I am now "right" to exercise my control
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well it may well be "the way of the world" but the question is "Is it the best or even better way?"
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 377 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Why is it the way of the world? Does our evolutionary history not show us that it is the best way?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Well it may well be "the way of the world" but the question is "Is it the best or even better way?" The thing i never liked about the U.N. is any po-dunk nation with 2000 people had the same say as a nation with many millions. Someone has to be in charge, or else all you have is a gridlock of nations who demand more when they themselves have little to offer themselves. As for which way of life is best, a case can be made against our nation/culture, as we are far too materialistic for our own good and consume far more than our share. It would be hell on earth if every other nation followed our pattern because there simply isn't enough left to consume ...at the rate we did. This is even now a problem as China seeks to follow our pattern somewhat. They simply cannot be allowed to consume anywhere near the scale we did. Even though we have been pigs, however, is no reason that it is fair to discriminate against us. After all, we have the biggest stick, though it seems primitive to have to use it. Im not sure how consensus will ever be found on this planet without wars, however.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
HUH?
That depends on who you ask, the imposer or the person imposed upon. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
The thing i never liked about the U.N. is any po-dunk nation with 2000 people had the same say as a nation with many millions. The same say in what, exactly? UN resolutions are non-binding. The UN has precisely zero authority that doesn't stem from voluntary compliance with their requests.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Why does someone have to be in charge?
Shall we hold a world wide vote to see who should be in charge?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 377 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
quote:Source Anyone want to start a fish farm? If this fish was 25 yrs old thats $29k/yr/fish. Can you grow tuna in a tank?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 377 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
HUH? That depends on who you ask, No it doesn't. It depends on who is able to do the imposing.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Bullshit.
You said "Does our evolutionary history not show us that it is the best way? " It does not show us that it is the best way, it shows us only what happened.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 377 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
My point is, why are the most powerful nations the most powerful nations? It is because they have succeded. Should we persue a model that leads to less success?
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