Summations Only

You have avoided answering the problem of the gun on the nightstand to stop burglaries that ends up killing innocents. In fact, it is just as if no one asked you and several did.Now how will you stop bad things from happening when many "good" guys are toting guns around? Will you be sure to have full background checks and registration? (as the NRA does of course since they are very responsible). Will you have mental tests and mandatory anger management courses? Will you mandate guns that only the rightful owner can fire (which unlike guns that can't shoot at people already exist)? (as the NRA supports since they are very responsible and do not put guns above lives).Or will you just allow everyone to arm themselves to shoot the 'bad' guys? Or shoot the guy who gets into a road rage and pulls his gun? Or shoot the guy before he takes your open carry gun from you when he bumps into you?Since you couldn't answer the nightstand issue can you answer this one?

Self-defense ... ... and especially defense of freedom ...

As usual you confound the teaching of individuals with the overarching messages of scripture about nations.

I believe I already said that the gun in the nightstand drawer is not safe.I also don't expect "many" good guys to be toting guns, just the occasional one or a few. Being able to carry anywhere doesn't mean all that many will choose to do so and I would suppose they won't. Again, I'm talking about those who already have guns, the vast majority of whom are law-abiding. I can't guess what further laws might conceivably be needed, we can discuss that when it becomes an issue.People who have never had experience with guns have the silliest ideas about what would happen.

Yes that study seems strange. I wish some would come along who have some knowledge of statistics and discuss how that study was put together. Funny how everybody has been ignoring it.I personally think an increase in crimes in general can approach the tragedy of deaths by guns. The cavalier way some here dismiss thefts and home invasions and assaults as tolerable so long as people aren't killed misses how sometimes a person would rather be dead than suffer those things, they are that traumatic. "Fewer deaths" sounds good on paper, but what's so wonderful about people being maimed in the commission of a crime because they can't protect themselves from the evil thug who did it to them? Better the evil thug dead in my opinion.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Sorry I missed that. I agree with you there.So a gun in the home is useless for defense against the bad guys? If it isn't immediately available you are out of luck if there is an armed home invasion. Is there any way a gun can be both safe and useful at home?That leaves us with personal carrying for self-defense against the bad guys. You have no personal views on what laws are necessary?

I think you can have a gun well hidden in your home that's available enough in an emergency since there's usually SOME time between the sinister sounds of breaking and entering and confrontation.

A safe gun is stored, locked up, with a trigger lock and the ammunition locked up in a different location. Anything else and it is a potential threat to the owner and anyone else in the house.How do you know those sinister sounds are not just the drunk neighbor going to the wrong house or a woman trying to escape an attacker? Or a teenage prank?I guess "Fuck 'em", huh?

What would Jesus do Faith? Would he own a gun do you think?

Usually? How do you know?I am inclined to agree that a large number of the bad guys are not very bright but that is not true of the most dangerous ones. You are dependent on there being appropriate "sinister sounds", that wake you up and give you time to unlock the gun, load it and get your wits around you. My guess (only a guess) is that you'd be lucky indeed for that to occur 1/4 of the time. The rest of the time the gun is useless at home.What about on the street?

Everything you don't agree with seems strange to you, but you have no legitimate reason for questioning that study. You've also had no answer for the fact that the study results make perfect intuitive sense. The more gun powder the bigger the boom. The more guns the more gun deaths. What would be strange would be some other relationship. But you think lots of strange things, and this is yet another one contradicted by the evidence. All the other western democracies have fewer guns than the US but similar levels of crime. In fact, the two cities with the highest crime levels are US cities, Memphis and Detroit. Obviously guns aren't very good at preventing crime. See Crime Rates in Cities Worldwide 2014.--Percy

Another aspect you are not looking at is the fact of wealth and its impact on violence. Percy mentioned this and you have not responded about how it may not be race, but lack of wealth that plays a significant role in this difference. And you could not have picked two better cities for seeing this. The median income of Phoenix is $44,000 while the median income in Philadelphia is $34,000. Both areas have a large community of minorities, although yes Philadelphia has more African Americans, Phoenix has over 40% Hispanics within their city limits according to recent census data. Perhaps we should focus in more on that difference in income of 10,000 dollars between these two areas. In addition to this the cost of living in these areas are: Phoenix is .3% above the national average, while Philadelphia is .6% above the national average. So, Philadelphia has a lower median wage, a higher cost of living, and a higher amount of violence. Is race really what you think the predominate factor is in increasing violence? Cost of Living Source

Who do you suppose these people will be who will start carrying guns if allowed? People like you and me who the last thing they want to do is shoot someone? Will it be people who don't live in fear of governmental conspiracies or that there is some crazy killer behind every corner? Or will it be the person who wants to be a vigilante? Or who lives in an area where there is already high gun homicide rate? This where the whole idea of how to tell the difference between a good guy and a bad guy comes in. How about laws that regulate who can and cannot have access to guns? There obviously needs to be a lot more work done in this area as those that would use a firearm in the commission of a crime still have access to them. I have a lot of experience with guns. I also have a lot of experience with gun owners as well as a lot of experience with the kinds of people who would love to have open carry laws passed and allowed unlimited access. I find it silly that you would think that allowing more people these kinds of freedoms would result in less gun deaths.HBD

But you have already declared statistics untrustworthy and "bogus in every possible way." And you have also stated that you have no interest in learning anything about how to understand statistics. So why would you say this and accuse others of "ignoring" it? But don't you think human life is valuable even if that human life is an "evil thug?"Personally, I can imagine some situations where I would not hesitate to kill someone. But, those situations would be so extreme and so rare that there is almost no chance that I will ever have to face it. I am not going to carry a gun around or keep a gun within easy reach just in case one of the 1 in a million chance events happen. I suppose if it ever does I will wish I had kept a gun handy, but at this point, the risk is just not worth it. And no, I would not shoot someone for stealing my television, or my car, or my jewelry.Besides, based on our discussion on Calvinism, don't you believe that if an "evil thug" attacks and maims you that it is because God has caused it to happen? Are you suggesting we try to use guns to thwart God's will? Or is it also God's will that good Christian men and women use their guns to kill the bad guys the he sent to maim and kill them? I fail to see how your position on this thread is consistent with your position on the Calvinism thread. I have looked at that study you are wishing someone would explain, and I have done some analysis of my own, but I don't have time right now to get into it. Maybe later tonight or in the next couple of days.HBDEdited by herebedragons, : typo

In just one article (2-year-old accidentally kills his mom in Wal-Mart) are descriptions of three gun accidents involving children: --Percy