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Author Topic:   Belief in God is scientific.
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1384 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 181 of 262 (695662)
04-08-2013 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by AdminNosy
04-08-2013 12:46 PM


Re: Watch the language
I am not here to be arrogant or to claim any kind of theory or even hypotheses. I am merely pointing out that there is a statistic out there that seems distasteful to the scientific community even though it is a product of the human brain, the same brain which is responsible for the entire human knowledge.
As for real theoretical physicist's i am not in conflict with anyone
or even claiming any kind of skill or knowledge in just like any curious human looking for the truth.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by AdminNosy, posted 04-08-2013 12:46 PM AdminNosy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1384 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 182 of 262 (695669)
04-08-2013 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ringo
04-08-2013 12:06 PM


quote:
restrict it to today? What about all of the concepts that used to be popular but now most people know better? Flat earth? Geocentrism?

yes you are right but those fallacies relate to the practice of the scientific method, not religious faith. Also not everyone believed the world was flat, aboriginal tribesmen from the deepest amazon didn't believe the world was flat they didn't even know of the existence of the idiots who said it was but they did believe in a deity. I can give you dozens of examples of isolated populations believing in a deity but only a few examples of European idiots believing the world was flat.

Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 04-08-2013 12:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Taq
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Posts: 6051
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 183 of 262 (695670)
04-08-2013 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 3:27 PM


Re: Watch the language
I am not here to be arrogant or to claim any kind of theory or even hypotheses. I am merely pointing out that there is a statistic out there that seems distasteful to the scientific community even though it is a product of the human brain, the same brain which is responsible for the entire human knowledge.

What statistic?

Also, there are many products of the human mind that are distasteful such as racism and hatred.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by divermike1974, posted 04-08-2013 3:27 PM divermike1974 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
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Posts: 9431
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(5)
Message 184 of 262 (695673)
04-08-2013 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 3:27 PM


Re: Watch the language
I am not here to be arrogant or to claim any kind of theory or even hypotheses. I am merely pointing out that there is a statistic out there that seems distasteful to the scientific community even though it is a product of the human brain, the same brain which is responsible for the entire human knowledge.

Only some brains are responsible for the creation of any human knowledge, and those brains nearly exclusively turn out to be possessed by people of other than ordinary intelligence. The rest of us humans have at best been able to grasp that knowledge, with some of the humans actively opposing the acquisition of knowledge.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 4533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(6)
Message 185 of 262 (695675)
04-08-2013 4:31 PM


Millions of people buy a lottery ticket every week and the same millions that didn't win last week will buy one next week.

This can only mean that millions of people think that one day they'll win the lottery. So millions of people are wrong. Yet millions of people can't be wrong because they're the most complex things in the universe.

Solve for x.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-08-2013 5:29 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 190 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 3:57 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 186 of 262 (695683)
04-08-2013 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Tangle
04-08-2013 4:31 PM


Good one!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 187 of 262 (695687)
04-08-2013 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 3:17 PM


If the whole universe is made up of a combination of 12 fundamental particles that are governed by 4 fundamental forces, then the very fact that you and i are not only self aware but also aware of each other and are involved in a discussion about our very existence is to me a definite indication that our brains are more complex than our bodies.

My body includes my brain. If there is some sense in which the part can be more complex than the whole, now would be a great time for you to explain it.

As for becoming arrogant ...

As for being arrogant, it is only with considerable restraint on my part that I'm not choosing my own adjectives for you right now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by divermike1974, posted 04-08-2013 3:17 PM divermike1974 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 188 of 262 (695688)
04-08-2013 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 3:43 PM


yes you are right but those fallacies relate to the practice of the scientific method, not religious faith.

So ... it would be unscientific to apply the argumentum ad populum to scientific matters ... but scientific to apply it to unscientific matters?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by divermike1974, posted 04-08-2013 3:43 PM divermike1974 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 189 of 262 (695689)
04-08-2013 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 12:43 PM


Comparative measurement? The human brain and the body that supports it is made up of a mixture of subatomic particles. There are only 12 different types of these particles ...

Twelve, eh? Since you're lecturing us on "the current state of theoretical physics" could you list them? Only I can think of more than that, and I'd be fascinated to know which ones you don't think exist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by divermike1974, posted 04-08-2013 12:43 PM divermike1974 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 4:18 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1384 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 190 of 262 (695742)
04-09-2013 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Tangle
04-08-2013 4:31 PM


quote:
can only mean that millions of people think that one day they'll win the lottery. So millions of people are wrong. Yet millions of people can't be wrong because they're the most complex things in the universe.

wow you don't have much real life experience do you? People do the lottery for the chance to win not because they expect to win.
Think about it, do you really think people enter the lottery because they think they are going to win, or are they really hoping that they are going to win? Reasons for entering in the lottery can range from seeking a gambling thrill to straight out desperation. I don't think you can class expecting to win the lottery as a popular fallacy millions of people don't do it expecting to win.

Edited by Admin, : Fix Quote. DiverMike, please preview your posts. Your incorrect use of quotes will be highlighted in red. You close a quote with [/quote], not with another [quote].


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Tangle, posted 04-08-2013 4:31 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2013 5:24 AM divermike1974 has responded

    
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1384 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 191 of 262 (695744)
04-09-2013 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Dr Adequate
04-08-2013 6:42 PM


There are 12 fundamental particles that make make up all the matter in the universe 6 leptons and 6 quarks. Instead of me naming the ones you are talking about why don't you name them and show where they are located within all the matter in the universe?
please remember the definition of fundamental and also that they have to present in the actual matter in the universe as it stands and not to have once existed as part of a process i.e. That they have not been victim to particle annihilation.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-08-2013 6:42 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-09-2013 1:06 PM divermike1974 has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 192 of 262 (695747)
04-09-2013 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by divermike1974
04-09-2013 3:57 AM


divermike1974 writes:

wow you don't have much real life experience do you?

Wow, you don't know how to behave do you?

People do the lottery for the chance to win not because they expect to win.

Is that why they pray to God too? The chance to get to heaven, to have their cancer cured? Because people do actually win the lottery - it's real and it pays out.

Belief in the lottery doesn't take much effort - believing that you'll ever win it is very nearly as big a delusion as belief in a God. People do the lottery because they believe that they can win it - period. They can't. [With an error rate of 1 in 14 million, for the UK lottery.]

Think about it, do you really think people enter the lottery because they think they are going to win, or are they really hoping that they are going to win?

Think about it. If they didn't think they could win why would they hand over their cash?

I don't think you can class expecting to win the lottery as a popular fallacy millions of people don't do it expecting to win.

They don't expect to win, they're not total morons - but they think that they can win. They can't, it is a popular fallacy.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 3:57 AM divermike1974 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 5:35 AM Tangle has responded

  
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1384 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 193 of 262 (695748)
04-09-2013 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Tangle
04-09-2013 5:24 AM


quote:
They don't expect to win, they're not total morons - but they think that they can win. They can't, it is a popular fallacy.

mate the post i replied to said its a popular fallacy because they do expect to win that is what the poster said.

please read what you just wrote its not a popular fallacy to think they can win of course they can win, id go as far as to say that's its a popular fact that you can win the lottery. The would be morons if every week they bought a ticket believing out right they are going to win.

Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2013 5:24 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2013 6:05 AM divermike1974 has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 194 of 262 (695750)
04-09-2013 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by divermike1974
04-09-2013 5:35 AM


Mate, it IS a popular fallacy for an individual to think that they can win the lottery - because they very, very obviously can't.

[The error rate in that statement is 1 in 14 million for the UK.]


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 5:35 AM divermike1974 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Pressie, posted 04-09-2013 6:52 AM Tangle has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1568
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 195 of 262 (695754)
04-09-2013 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Tangle
04-09-2013 6:05 AM


The chances of winning Powerball in my country are 1 in 24 million. Occasionally someone wins it. Big.

Someone can and will win it every now and then. Hopefully it will be me next time around! I'll keep on playing, but won't ever bet my hard-earned savings and future pension on me winning it.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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