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Author Topic:   Is Dispensationalism a cult?
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 77 (708843)
10-15-2013 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
10-14-2013 5:50 PM


Re: Have You Ever Read The Bible?
Phat writes:
Believe it or not, I question many things, but am not so doubtful as others might be.
The point is: are you encouraged to think for yourself? If dispensationalism as a whole or your congregation in particular is discouraging you from questioning them, telling you to "just have faith", then that might be a symptom of a cult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-14-2013 5:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 35 of 77 (708924)
10-16-2013 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
10-15-2013 3:49 PM


Re: Reading the Bible for understanding
Phat writes:
As far as thinking for myself...yes, I DO think for myself within the context of my belief.
The question was: Are you encouraged to think for yourself. If Dispensationalism - or your particular congregation - is a cult, it would probably discourage you from thinking about anything but its own prescribed doctines.
Phat writes:
I simply believe that Gods wisdom is greater than my own wisdom.
How wise do you have to be to recognize wisdom?
The "context of your belief" seems to be that Father Knows Best. You seem to be looking for a cult, whether you've found one or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 10-15-2013 3:49 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 10-18-2014 10:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 41 of 77 (738956)
10-18-2014 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
10-18-2014 10:38 AM


Re: Reading the Bible for understanding
Phat writes:
I have raised the question as to whether a critical thinker could also be a believer.
And I have answered to the effect that you can't be a sincere believer until after you have examined the available evidence critically.
Phat writes:
As far as "Father Knows Best", one would think that belief in God presupposes that God knows more than we do, no?
Although the Father metaphor has its limitations, I think it's clear that a child is expected to grow up and take upon himself the resonsibilities that his father once upheld for him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 10-18-2014 10:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 10-18-2014 4:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 77 (739013)
10-19-2014 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
10-18-2014 4:18 PM


Re: Reading the Bible for understanding
Phat writes:
Lets examine how Jesus related to His father..and...as He often said..."Our Father."
Yes, let's. Remember the Trinity, where Father, Son and Holy Spirit are "different but equal"? If God is our Father and Jesus is the Son of Man (our Brother) then where's our excuse for not growing up to be like our Father?
Phat writes:
Scripture does say, however, that we are to be as children in regards to faith and trust.
You can trust your father forever. It's not the same as relying on him.
Phat writes:
In regards to faith and trust, what available evidence do we have? Moreso, from what sources are we to gather this evidence?
Seek and ye shall find. We have a responsibility to look everywhere we can think of for evidence. We can say we haven't found any evidence yet but that's not an excuse to give up the search. Conclusions based on the evidence are tentative, so faith based on lack of evidence must be tentative too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 10-18-2014 4:18 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 10-19-2014 4:07 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 45 of 77 (739028)
10-19-2014 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
10-19-2014 4:07 PM


Re: Whose Will Is It, Anyway?
Phat writes:
Because we are not to be as gods, for one thing.
Why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 10-19-2014 4:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 61 of 77 (739370)
10-23-2014 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
10-22-2014 4:04 PM


Re: Whose Will Is It, Anyway?
Phat writes:
Thats also what Lucifer concluded as he chose to become satan.
So maybe his conclusion was correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 10-22-2014 4:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 10-23-2014 1:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 66 of 77 (739392)
10-23-2014 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
10-23-2014 1:31 PM


Re: Whose Will Is It, Anyway?
Phat writes:
Your problem seemed to be the obedience or else part.
Yes, I do have a problem with the "or else" part. I'm guessing that you have a problem with "or else" in any other context.
Give me your wallet, or else. Do what I say for the rest of your life, or else. What's the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 10-23-2014 1:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 10-26-2014 10:17 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 70 of 77 (739680)
10-26-2014 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
10-26-2014 10:17 AM


Re: Discerning Character
Phat writes:
Should a God have to earn our trust or should He make us take a leap of faith?
I can see why we'd have to take a leap of faith for a non-existent god. I can also see why a false god would want us to take a leap of faith - because that faith would be misplaced and could not be earned. However, I have trouble understanding why a true god would want us to take a leap of faith.
Phat writes:
Lets say that trust is derived from knowledge. Perhaps lack of trust implies lack of knowledge.
I don't think that's it at all.
We start out trusting our parents completely. They are omnpotent. They can do no wrong. But the more we learn about them, the more we know that that isn't true. Maybe you can't trust your father to come home sober on payday. As we grow up and become more like them, we learn that they are just like us.
So I think trust starts out as a big pile which gets smaller as we learn, not bigger. Of course, our ability to tust does become more reliable as a result.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 10-26-2014 10:17 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 01-17-2015 8:19 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 72 of 77 (747623)
01-17-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
01-17-2015 8:19 AM


Re: Discerning Character
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
I can also see why a false god would want us to take a leap of faith - because that faith would be misplaced and could not be earned.
Are you suggesting that we need to earn our faith?
No, I'm suggesting that a false god would fail to earn our trust/faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 01-17-2015 8:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 04-01-2015 7:58 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 75 of 77 (754974)
04-02-2015 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
04-01-2015 7:58 AM


Re: Discerning Character
Phat writes:
Sounds like you are proposing that a true God would provide us the power to believe.
If so, would this not detract from free will?
As I've said before, I think "free will" is pretty much a nonsensical concept. It's mostly a loophole that religionists use to absolve God of any responsibility for His actions.
I don't know what "providing us with the power to believe" means. I'd put the power to believe in a similar category with the power to catch a cold.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 04-01-2015 7:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 04-03-2015 9:28 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 77 (755100)
04-04-2015 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by NoNukes
04-03-2015 9:28 PM


Re: Discerning Character
NoNukes writes:
Not on topic here, but at some point it might be interesting to explore your position on free will, determinism, choice, and whatever else.
"Explore" is the word for it. I don't really have a fixed position. It just seems to me that what other people say about free will doesn't make much sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 04-03-2015 9:28 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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