Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 115 (8790 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 09-23-2017 1:31 AM
364 online now:
Coyote, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), sravan, vimesey (6 members, 358 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Porkncheese
Post Volume:
Total: 819,311 Year: 23,917/21,208 Month: 1,882/2,468 Week: 391/822 Day: 1/50 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
78910
11
12Next
Author Topic:   Why "YEC" Creationism is BAD for America
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5989
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 152 of 179 (718757)
02-08-2014 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Jaf
02-08-2014 6:46 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
So the forum is evolution verses creation, and you need me to explain what is meant by creation and what I believe it to be in order to get a thread up here, wow.

Pick whatever topic you want, but just follow the rules and you threads will probably get promoted quickly.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 6:46 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 6:59 PM Coyote has responded

  
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 153 of 179 (718761)
02-08-2014 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Coyote
02-08-2014 6:50 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
Go to the "hast thou entered into treasures of the snow thread"' in is this science, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Coyote, posted 02-08-2014 6:50 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Coyote, posted 02-08-2014 7:17 PM Jaf has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5989
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 154 of 179 (718764)
02-08-2014 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Jaf
02-08-2014 6:59 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
I tend to avoid the bible-based threads.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 6:59 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 7:19 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

  
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 155 of 179 (718766)
02-08-2014 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Coyote
02-08-2014 7:17 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
Lol. The bible is the text for the creationist view. I think you are in the wrong place.

Edited by Jaf, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Coyote, posted 02-08-2014 7:17 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by arachnophilia, posted 02-08-2014 8:01 PM Jaf has not yet responded

    
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


(3)
Message 156 of 179 (718774)
02-08-2014 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Jaf
02-08-2014 7:19 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
the problem is that YEC is not a monolithic venture. there are young earth creationists who acknowledge that the bible is their primary source, and others that like to pretend it's a purely scientific venture (that coincidentally agrees with their reading of the bible). similarly, there people here who only want to discuss science, the scientific objections to creationism, and the scientific ramifications. perhaps coyote is one of those people. there are others who are perfectly willing to talk about both religion and science, and still others who are primarily interested in the religious aspects.

and so here, we have multiple fora where we can discuss the purely scientific, the purely religious, and various degrees of combinations. this forum is in the "science forums" section, where science (and not the bible) is the primary driving force of the discussion; here we will discuss the bible only in so far as it relates to science, testable claims, etc. over in the "social and religious forums" section, we'll only talk about science in so far as it relates to the bible, but religious concerns are the primary driving factor.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 7:19 PM Jaf has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11707
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 157 of 179 (718776)
02-08-2014 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Jaf
02-08-2014 4:53 PM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
God created you and you don't accept that

That's not true. I'm a Christian.

and you tell me I have accept what you say I am,

No, you were talking about belonging to the classification, regardless of whether or not you accept it, if you belong to the classification then you do belong.

dude get your head read. It's a free country until RAZD is president.

One of the things you are not free to do, because its impossible, is discount yourself from a classification just because you don't accept the ramifications of belonging to it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 4:53 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 10:02 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 158 of 179 (718796)
02-08-2014 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by New Cat's Eye
02-08-2014 8:04 PM


Re: Ape-tooth monkeys
I tend to avoid theistic evolutionists.

Edited by Jaf, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-08-2014 8:04 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18968
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 159 of 179 (718797)
02-08-2014 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Jaf
02-08-2014 5:39 PM


Re: reality vs fantasy?
So what your saying is creationists are seeking a political solution to ensure creationism is taught in schools, is that correct?

Yes, and the problem with this is that knowledge is not decided by popularity or by voting -- especially by people that are undereducated and ignorant of the details that go into scientific knowledge.

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 5:39 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 10:44 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18968
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 160 of 179 (718801)
02-08-2014 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Jaf
02-08-2014 5:43 PM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
Can you tell me your definition of a creationist please?

at it's most basic someone who believes in some form of creation.

creationism is broken down into various flavours:

http://en.wikipedia.org/.../Creationism#Types_of_creationism

Of these the Young Earth Creationists (YEC) are -- imho -- as deluded as flat earth believers, because the age of the earth is demonstrably older than 6,000 years by several factors by simple counting methods.

And that delusion is why their beliefs should not be included in public school science classes.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 5:43 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 10:46 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18968
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 161 of 179 (718803)
02-08-2014 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Jaf
02-08-2014 5:48 PM


Re: reality vs fantasy?
I'd like to see the arguments and who they are being presented too, I find it unusual that creationists are seeking a political solution to this issue don't you? As long as our freedom is not curtailed to believe and educate our young, which is clearly what you are trying to have politically removed from us, is that correct, hopefully you will answer me honestly.

The US constitution provides specifically for separation of church and state and explicitly states that no one religion or religious view shall be "established" or endorsed by any public function. This includes public schools but does restrict private schools.

This preserves all our freedoms. People who want to teach their children delusional ideas are free to do so via home schooling or a private school if that suits their beliefs.

Belief cannot be enforced by legislation.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 5:48 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Jaf, posted 02-09-2014 1:03 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18968
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 162 of 179 (718805)
02-08-2014 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Jaf
02-08-2014 6:46 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
So the forum is evolution verses creation, and you need me to explain what is meant by creation and what I believe it to be in order to get a thread up here, wow.

The idea is simple: if you are going to argue a position -- no matter what it is -- in a thread, that your position needs to be stated. That defines what you are going to defend in the thread.

So far you have been given a lot of latitude to just make random statements of highly questionable value. When you start a thread you need to rise up to a higher intellectual standard of quality and defend it with substance.

Good luck


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 6:46 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 10:49 PM RAZD has responded

  
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 163 of 179 (718806)
02-08-2014 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by RAZD
02-08-2014 10:08 PM


Re: reality vs fantasy?
Kind of like only a chosen few can decide what's good for us and what's truth and what isn't, like the dark ages?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 10:08 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 11:02 PM Jaf has responded

    
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 164 of 179 (718807)
02-08-2014 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by RAZD
02-08-2014 10:14 PM


Re: Gap-toothed creationists
We'll the bible is yec, which is why I don't get the popes mates advocating for theistic evolution.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 10:14 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 11:07 PM Jaf has not yet responded

    
Jaf
Member (Idle past 1226 days)
Posts: 150
Joined: 01-30-2014


Message 165 of 179 (718808)
02-08-2014 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by RAZD
02-08-2014 10:29 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
I understand how you would like me to behave but the undertone of many responses is very subjective and non scientific and a personal attack.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 10:29 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Coyote, posted 02-08-2014 10:54 PM Jaf has responded
 Message 169 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2014 11:20 PM Jaf has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5989
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 166 of 179 (718809)
02-08-2014 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Jaf
02-08-2014 10:49 PM


Re: You're not doing so well...
I understand how you would like me to behave but the undertone of many responses is very subjective and non scientific and a personal attack.

You came here with a chip on your shoulder and didn't follow our rules.

What kind of welcome did you expect?

If you had been here a while you would know that the moderators bend over backwards for creationists, and they are allowed behavior that would get any of the rest of us suspended for a while.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 10:49 PM Jaf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Jaf, posted 02-08-2014 11:28 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
RewPrev1
...
78910
11
12Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017