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Author Topic:   APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION of Pope Francis
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11555
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 16 of 62 (712368)
12-03-2013 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
12-03-2013 10:51 AM


Re: Human Foibles Of Phat
I honestly don't know how I'd spend 25K in a year.

What kind of dwelling do you live in? Do you already own it?

I bought a house a few years ago, got a big ol' mortgage and everything. Its old and modest, but I really like it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 12-03-2013 10:51 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 12-03-2013 10:59 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

ringo
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Posts: 13326
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 17 of 62 (712370)
12-03-2013 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by New Cat's Eye
12-03-2013 10:55 AM


Re: Human Foibles Of Phat
Catholic Scientist writes:

What kind of dwelling do you live in? Do you already own it?


My house is paid for. It's 56 years old, about 1000 square feet and I've lived there 21 years. Hopefully it won't fall down before I do.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-03-2013 10:55 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 07-02-2017 5:24 AM ringo has responded

Phat
Member
Posts: 9499
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 18 of 62 (813911)
07-02-2017 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by ringo
12-03-2013 10:59 AM


Francis The Despot?
Faith seems to think Pope Francis is a potential antichrist and so do some of my conservative church friends.

Allow me to investigate:

Ah Ha! Maybe this is why Faith does not trust him: Pope says evolution, Big Bang are real

Plus he is liberal.

Somehow, conservative vs liberal has turned into good vs evil.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 12-03-2013 10:59 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 07-02-2017 9:47 AM Phat has responded
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 07-06-2017 12:10 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Faith
Member
Posts: 25606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 19 of 62 (813923)
07-02-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
07-02-2017 5:24 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
The Protestant Reformers all concluded that the papacy is the seat of the Antichrist. This is based on the general denial of Biblical truth in favor of pagan superstitions, as well as the historical fact that the Popes all took on totalitarian worldly power, which is characteristic of the Antichrist but contrary to Christian doctrine. And of course they executed "heretics" to the tune of something like 67 millions.

And this Pope is a Jesuit, a member of a diabolical order founded by Ignatius Loyola which engineered assassinations all over Europe in their zeal to overthrow the Protestant Reformation. They also assassinated at least one Pope who thought their work diabolical.

abe: Francis has already taken all kinds of unchristian positions, embracing atheists and everybody else as if they were all Christians. Of course he supports Marxism, the Jesuits invented it, another evil to their credit. /abe

Our second President John Adams said: "If ever there was a body of men who merited eternal damnation on earth and in hell it is this Society of Loyola's."

They get a lot of good propaganda these days because so few know history and the true nature of the Jesuit order and they are good at propaganda.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 07-02-2017 5:24 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 07-02-2017 11:50 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 21 by Porosity, posted 07-02-2017 2:34 PM Faith has responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9499
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 20 of 62 (813926)
07-02-2017 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
07-02-2017 9:47 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
AZPaul3 writes:

Now, if he really wanted to do something, like maybe, just for jollies, actually follow the teachings and requirements of his supposed lord and savior then maybe the world would be moved to listen. Announce that the church will sell off all of its treasures and distribute the proceeds to the poor and needy around the world. Donate the archives to a consortium of universities. Turn Vatican City into a museum to the benefit of all the children's hospitals in Europe. Travel the world as a pauper from town to town on the small charities of others giving his homilies in the parks and on the street corners.

But he cannot do this. He cannot live by the words of his Jesus because he does not believe the words of his Jesus. Except for those that give him more money and power.

I'm curious what would happen if a Pope did try and sell off Vatican assets! Would the church have him declared mentally ill?

The Protestant Pastors have assets too! One prominent megachurch Pastor actually did walk away from his church. The Crazy Mission of Francis Chan

Of course, critics will call it a simple publicity stunt. It is hard for Christians to convince any of the secular world of their sincerity.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 07-02-2017 9:47 AM Faith has not yet responded

Porosity
Member
Posts: 146
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 21 of 62 (813934)
07-02-2017 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
07-02-2017 9:47 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
This is based on the general denial of Biblical truth in favor of pagan superstitions

If it weren't for pagan myths your cult would not exist as we see it today. All the myths, stories and symbolism of Christianity are plagiarized from previous cults.

Horus is just the tip of the iceberg and predates Jesus 2200BC . Horus the only begotten sun, who's uncle Set, betrays the only sun of God and has him executed.

Horus born of a virgin.
Horus had 12 disciples.
Horus performed miracles healed the sick and dying.
Horus raised Asar from the dead. Asar translates to Lazarus.
Horus was crucified and raised from the dead after 3 days.
Horus was the lamb, the way, the light.

Sound familiar? It should, cause your Jesus God was not even invented yet.


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 Message 19 by Faith, posted 07-02-2017 9:47 AM Faith has responded

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Faith
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Posts: 25606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 22 of 62 (813935)
07-02-2017 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Porosity
07-02-2017 2:34 PM


Re: Francis The Despot?
Nope. All the others were invented to either anticipate or try to pre-empt the Real Messiah when He came. He was prophesied all the way back in Eden and everybody used to know that so they invented religions and messiahs galore, or the devil did. The Real Thing, however, has real supernatural power because He's the true Creator God, died a real death that could pay for human sin because He had absolutely no sin Himself, the only human being that was ever true of, and really rose from the dead. All the rest were just imitations.

Actually the first was Nimrod who became known under many other names over the years, such as Tammuz, also Horus; and his wife Semiramus who became the prototype for many goddesses such as Isis, as well as the Virgin Mary, who is a pagan invention of the RCC not recognized by Protestants.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


(2)
Message 23 of 62 (813937)
07-02-2017 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Porosity
07-02-2017 2:34 PM


Re: Francis The Despot?
A significant portion of what we just described about Horus is simply false and lacks any Egyptian historical or archeological support whatsoever. Much of what I described about Horus is simply a reflection of the effort of atheists to make Horus look as much like Jesus as possible.

Horus was worshiped principally in two Egyptian cultural centers (Bekhdet in the north and Idfu in the south). Little remains at the northern location, but there is still a large and well preserved Ptolemaic temple at Idfu; most of our information about Horus comes from this southern temple. Horus was usually represented as a falcon.

I don't recall Jesus being a falcon.

Claim: Horus was conceived by a virgin mother named Meri, and had a stepfather named Seb (Joseph)
Truth: Horus was NOT conceived of a virgin. In fact, mural and textual evidence from Egypt indicates Isis (there is no evidence that Meri was ever part of her name) hovered over the erect penis (she created) of Osiris to conceive Horus. While she may have been a virgin before the conception, she utilized Osiris penis to conceive.

Claim: Horus was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and was resurrected.
Truth: Horus is not reported to have died at all in the vast majority of Egyptian narratives. There is also no crucifixion story. Instead, Horus is usually described as eventually merging with Re (the Sun god) after which he dies and is reborn every day as the sun rises

Conclusion; a lot of atheist bull****, you try and make look like the gospel; from;

http://coldcasechristianity.com/...telling-of-the-horus-myth

That's why I never accept ANYTHING an evolutionist atheist ever states by assertion without looking into it, because you can't trust them because of the mendacious way a lot of them present things.


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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 24 of 62 (813954)
07-03-2017 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Porosity
07-02-2017 2:34 PM


Re: Francis The Despot?
Porosity writes:

Horus was crucified and raised from the dead after 3 days.

In case anyone was wondering, crucifixion was invented by the Romans in 100 BC approx. Whereas I found a wiki picture of Horus, a statue of an eagle, dated to 1400 BC.


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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12872
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 25 of 62 (813960)
07-03-2017 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by mike the wiz
07-03-2017 5:28 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
Without supporting the Horus argument in any way:

quote:

In case anyone was wondering, crucifixion was invented by the Romans in 100 BC approx.

This is both false and irrelevant. False because crucifixion was in use much earlier. And irrelevant because IF that aspect of the Jesus story was based on the Horus myth (and I am not saying it is at all) it would be based on a version extant in the 1st Century AD.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by mike the wiz, posted 07-03-2017 5:28 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 07-03-2017 7:46 AM PaulK has responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 26 of 62 (813963)
07-03-2017 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by PaulK
07-03-2017 6:58 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
PaulK writes:

This is both false and irrelevant. False because crucifixion was in use much earlier. And irrelevant because IF that aspect of the Jesus story was based on the Horus myth (and I am not saying it is at all) it would be based on a version extant in the 1st Century AD.

My point in mentioning that is that his statement was that Horus was crucified but his statement basically implies that we should depict in our mind's eye, the usual and well known crucifixion, as though it was the same thing as Jesus's. So his statement seems to me to be a misrepresentation by vaguely comparing the two by use of that term,

PaulK writes:

IF that aspect of the Jesus story was based on the Horus myth (and I am not saying it is at all) it would be based on a version extant in the 1st Century AD.

Not necessarily. It would also be a mighty coincidence that the Romans were in charge at that time of Israel and employed the method of crucifixion. That the Romans used this method at that time, and were dominant would be a fortunate coincidence indeed.

It seems to me a stretch of credulity to make such distant comparisons.

I could be wrong but your link suggests the earliest form in about 800BC, but Horus statue was at 1400BC. Of the Persians, Carthaginians and Macedonians, the earliest date I can find is 800BC.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.


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 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 07-03-2017 6:58 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by PaulK, posted 07-03-2017 8:00 AM mike the wiz has responded

PaulK
Member
Posts: 12872
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 27 of 62 (813966)
07-03-2017 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by mike the wiz
07-03-2017 7:46 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
quote:

My point in mentioning that is that his statement was that Horus was crucified but his statement basically implies that we should depict in our mind's eye, the usual and well known crucifixion, as though it was the same thing as Jesus's. So his statement seems to me to be a misrepresentation by vaguely comparing the two by use of that term,

That is not a point that can be seen in your post.

quote:

Not necessarily. It would also be a mighty coincidence that the Romans were in charge at that time of Israel and employed the method of crucifixion.

Hardly a coincidence at all, since the story would be expected to fit reasonably with the historical setting. - and either the setting or the story could be different.

quote:

It seems to me a stretch of credulity to make such distant comparisons

And yet you chose to post inaccurate and irrelevant "information" in an attempt to refute that specific point - not even touching on the others.

quote:

I could be wrong but your link suggests the earliest form in about 800BC, but Horus statue was at 1400BC. Of the Persians, Carthaginians and Macedonians, the earliest date I can find is 800BC.

Which is more than sufficient as I already pointed out. The myths of the first Century AD are hardly likely to be identical with their versions 1500 years earlier.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 07-03-2017 7:46 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by mike the wiz, posted 07-03-2017 8:27 AM PaulK has responded
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 28 of 62 (813970)
07-03-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by PaulK
07-03-2017 8:00 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
PaulK writes:

Which is more than sufficient as I already pointed out. The myths of the first Century AD are hardly likely to be identical with their versions 1500 years earlier.

What versions are those?

To be honest I will confess I really will; I haven't read the stones with the hyoglyphs on so I for one can't know this, "crucifixion" as a comparison.

You disassociate yourself from arguing Horus and yet seem to be arguing for it in some way. "I am not saying what I am saying."

Do we know this "crucifixion", it is described by the Egyptians, what it was, and how it happened? My original link says there was none. Are you suggesting I should believer there was some type of "crucifixion"? Your link says the earliest people to employ some type of crucifixion was about 800BC but the Horus statue is 1400BC.

Is there any evidence crucifixion had been invented before 800BC? That's not to say it wasn't, if there isn't any evidence but if there is no evidence it did it isn't a strong argument that Horus was crucified. Surely the myth at least describes what happened?

So then I am more than happy to hear what the myth says happened if the one claiming there was a crucifixion will provide the story for us to read. Fair enough if you yourself don't want to provide that story if you aren't claiming a link between the gospel and Horus.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by PaulK, posted 07-03-2017 8:00 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by PaulK, posted 07-03-2017 8:41 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 29 of 62 (813972)
07-03-2017 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by PaulK
07-03-2017 8:00 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
PaulK writes:

Hardly a coincidence at all, since the story would be expected to fit reasonably with the historical setting. - and either the setting or the story could be different.

A fair point on that point, then. Maybe you're correct on this particular point.

mikey can be refuted too, when pitted against an intelligent debater.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12872
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 30 of 62 (813974)
07-03-2017 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by mike the wiz
07-03-2017 8:27 AM


Re: Francis The Despot?
quote:

What versions are those?

Mike, I am not trying to support the claim, as I have explicitly said. If you want to claim that crucifixion wasn't in the myth at the time the Jesus story was put together then you have to find that out for yourself.

quote:

You disassociate yourself from arguing Horus and yet seem to be arguing for it in some way. "I am not saying what I am saying."

It is entirely possible for both arguments to be a pile of steaming bullshit Mike. And I know that at least some Jesus Myth arguments ARE a pile of steaming bullshit. This one may be too (I am suspicious of it) But if you are going to complain about other people being untrustworthy sources you really ought to do better than them. And you obviously aren't.


This message is a reply to:
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