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Author Topic:   Correlation between Anti-Gun v Anti Death Penalty Views
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 16 of 113 (733897)
07-22-2014 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coragyps
07-21-2014 9:14 AM


The safety man had told me a few weeks before about how he was a Responsible Gun Owner......
Consider the number of times you have people say that they own guns but are not responsible gun owners ... because people that don't know they are irresponsible are unable to determine that they are not responsible.
How many drunks think they are safe drivers?
It's always someone else eh?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 33 of 113 (734338)
07-28-2014 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Tangle
07-28-2014 3:20 AM


The Death Penalty is not a Deterrent
The 'problems' have been caused because the US got its drugs from the EU who have now banned their sale to states that use them in inhuman ways. They are now experimenting with new drugs and getting it wrong.
Personally I am against the death penalty -- in practice it costs more than life in prison AND it is not a reversible process in case later evidence\review shows the person is innocent of that crime. There are too many cases of reversed decisions not to consider this as wanton murder of innocent people.
The evidence also shows that it has little impact on reducing murders (especially murders of passion).
Education has shown reduced recidivism, but has been defunded by GOP jealous of prisoners getting better education than they had ().
But, IF I HAD to kill someone, I can think of several methods that would result in death:
They all start with anesthetizing the victim into a state of unconsciousness or induced coma (and one could add happy hallucinogenics if one wanted):
  1. no additional life support -- the body will dehydrate and die of starvation,
  2. death by surgery -- remove organs for transplant into people that need them (heart, kidneys, livers, etc),
  3. death by exsanguination -- drain the body of blood, or
  4. death by freezing -- freeze until heart and lung stop (see uniform determination of death)
Off the top of my head.
Enjoy ... if that is your kind of 'thing' ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Tangle, posted 07-28-2014 3:20 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Straggler, posted 07-28-2014 8:53 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 07-28-2014 11:52 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 42 of 113 (734382)
07-28-2014 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
07-28-2014 9:53 AM


Re: The Death Penalty is not a Deterrent
Interesting, yes. The topic of punishing people in this way has been the subject of science fiction. (The Jigsaw Man). But in my opinion, the idea that criminals forfeit their rights to their organs is ultimately a horrifying equation. I don't think this makes the death penalty more moral, but it would make it more attractive.
And the larger issue would be ensuring that the party was guilty rather than the possessor of wanted organs ... it would open up a slippery slope of people being found guilty in order to supply organs.
Look at how our prison system has been corrupted already by for profit corporations and then consider how easy it could be to "upgrade" a prisoner to death sentence due to inappropriate behavior in prison rather than stuffing them into solitary confinement ...
... I thought it was the most horrid idea.
We've actually had three botched executions all attributable to the use of new combinations of drugs used as lethal injections.
Which is why I believe lethal injections are immoral. Perhaps we should ask the executioners to find a method that they would accept being used on themselves if it was ever warrented: the golden rule eh?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 07-28-2014 9:53 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by NoNukes, posted 07-28-2014 7:16 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 45 of 113 (734412)
07-28-2014 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by NoNukes
07-28-2014 7:16 PM


Re: The Death Penalty is not a Deterrent
It might also lead to a state interest in reducing the number of appeals so we get the organs while the donor is still young and hale. Thus enhancing the chance of executing the innocent.
Indeed. And new medical procedures that would benefit rich old people by using materials from young poor people.
Very dangerous precedent.
For the record, my preference of the lot was freezing.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 52 of 113 (734507)
07-30-2014 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Tangle
07-30-2014 3:00 AM


Re: The Death Penalty as a Deterrent: the high cost of death
also see
Costs | Death Penalty Information Center
Kansas
Idaho
Colorado
All show higher cost for death penalty cases than life imprisonment cases

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2014 3:00 AM Tangle has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 77 of 113 (735539)
08-17-2014 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by mram10
08-16-2014 5:28 PM


militarized police and innocent people being shot
... Let's focus on the majority of violent criminals being repeat offenders ...
You mean like "militarized police" in places like Ferguson MO?
Would Brown have been better off with a gun? If his friend had a gun?
Would the city be more peaceful if the residents protesting the shooting were carrying assault rifles?
On the other hand, if the police did not have guns would Brown have been shot?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by mram10, posted 08-16-2014 5:28 PM mram10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Omnivorous, posted 08-18-2014 7:18 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 85 of 113 (735619)
08-19-2014 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Omnivorous
08-18-2014 7:18 PM


Re: militarized police and innocent people being shot
... Black Panthers who studied the North Korean doctrine of juche, or self-reliance, and created their own soup kitchens, neighborhood watches and schools...sorta like the survivalists and ...
Sorta like Hamas?
Strangely enough, fantasies about liberty-loving armed Americans resisting jackbooted government thugs don't feature the colorful residents of Ferguson, MO.
Or the residents of Palestine?
Curious how oppressed people tend to behave in similar manners ...
Also, the Panthers were pretty much all killed.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. Meanwhile more was accomplished in the Civil Rights movement by peaceful non-violent protest than by violence and guns.
And it looks like the peaceful non-violent protests in Ferguson are have more of an effect than the violent outbursts in subduing the police actions and working towards justice. Looks a lot like the 60's all over again.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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