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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 346 of 436 (774238)
12-14-2015 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Big_Al35
12-13-2015 1:15 PM


And if the globalists are doing such a terrible job why can't I get you guys to believe in giants?

Because you have presented no evidence for giants.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Big_Al35, posted 12-13-2015 1:15 PM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by Big_Al35, posted 12-29-2015 9:04 AM Theodoric has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5929
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 347 of 436 (774239)
12-14-2015 11:16 PM


Giants?
And if the globalists are doing such a terrible job why can't I get you guys to believe in giants?

Because you have presented no evidence for giants.

Whereas we have presented evidence that there are/were no giants.

But then, you seem to be a poster boy for three (or maybe four) of the lines in my signature, below.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15948
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 348 of 436 (774242)
12-15-2015 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Big_Al35
12-14-2015 3:41 PM


Which ever excuse works best eh. So based on this pattern I kinda figure that giant skeletons really do exist.

Could I remind you once more that we have the skeletons that go with the skulls and they are not giant. This is evidence against your thesis that they are giant.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Big_Al35, posted 12-14-2015 3:41 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1341
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 349 of 436 (774243)
12-15-2015 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Coragyps
12-14-2015 4:17 PM


In a secret globalist storage locker in Hamtramck, Michigan?

Is that supposed to be a Polack joke?

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
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herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1341
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 350 of 436 (774247)
12-15-2015 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Big_Al35
12-14-2015 3:41 PM


The single parietal bone would be the key piece of evidence supporting this new species theory

Have you seen pictures of this supposed one piece parietal bone with accurate drawings and measurements? I haven't. Are you just taking their word for it that the parietal bone is one piece?

I also don't see how a one piece parietal bone is evidence of extraterrestrial origin. That is nonsense. A single parietal bone could be brought about by simple mutation. It would be unexpected and rather shocking, yes... but not evidence of extraterrestrials.

along with the DNA

What exactly did they find in the DNA and how is it different than modern human DNA? What is actually different and how is it not possible that it is just human DNA with some different mutations? How many bases are different? What regions did they sequence? What method did they use to isolate the mtDNA? There is just so much uncertainty about these claims that I don't know what else to make of it but that they are fabricated (or at the least, exaggerated).

I read they sequenced mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) but then they concluded these creatures would not be able to interbreed with humans. You realize that is a huge stretch in reasoning, right? Mitochondria are self contained units and novel mutations within them would not necessarily affect the ability to interbreed. It may be true that the mtDNA sequences they found would not fit into the current human gene tree, but I would say more evidence needs to be presented before those kind of conclusions can be made.

So where is the data? What do these novel mutations look like. What region of the mt genome are they in? Are these results being put forward? No.

So based on this pattern I kinda figure that giant skeletons really do exist.

This is the methodology you use to determine if these stories represent true facts or are just exaggerated hype?

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Big_Al35, posted 12-14-2015 3:41 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1341
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 351 of 436 (774248)
12-15-2015 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by caffeine
12-14-2015 4:37 PM


His unusually-shaped head is simply the result of wrapping it tightly in cloth as a baby so it was constrained to grow in this shape.

It sure looks like his skull has increased cranial capacity. I am curious how that actually happens (increase in capacity rather than just changing shape) and what the extra space might be filled with??? I don't think I have seen where the cranial capacity of the Paracas skulls is actually reported and what the increase over average human capacity is. But it appears that head wrapping does increase cranial capacity... at least from observing a picture on the internet.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by caffeine, posted 12-14-2015 4:37 PM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 2912
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 352 of 436 (774255)
12-15-2015 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by herebedragons
12-15-2015 8:32 AM


It sure looks like his skull has increased cranial capacity.

?

His skull is longer, but also narrower -- after all, the elongation is caused by the narrowing of the width through binding.

Refer to the experiments in developmental psychology in which young children are presented with the same amount of something in different containers and until a certain point in their development they think that the amount has changed. Same quantity of juice is poured from a short wide glass into a tall narrow glass and they think the tall glass contains more. Take some ricecake (or clay) in a ball and roll it into a longer narrow shape and they think there's more rice (or clay). It's been a few decades, but I recall that being called "conservation", the ability to realize that changing two dimensions does not change the actual amount.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by herebedragons, posted 12-15-2015 8:32 AM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
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herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1341
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 353 of 436 (774286)
12-15-2015 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by dwise1
12-15-2015 10:30 AM


And so this highlights the reason we need to have the actual data as to what the actual cranial volume of the skulls are. I looked at it again, and it still looks like there is more volume in the deformed skull. But that appears to be all anyone has offered is a subjective assessment of the cranial volume. Is there actual numbers? Because it should be easy to determine for the "scientists" who want to make these spectacular claims.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by dwise1, posted 12-15-2015 10:30 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1322
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 354 of 436 (774289)
12-15-2015 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by herebedragons
12-15-2015 3:12 PM


And so this highlights the reason we need to have the actual data as to what the actual cranial volume of the skulls are. I looked at it again, and it still looks like there is more volume in the deformed skull. But that appears to be all anyone has offered is a subjective assessment of the cranial volume. Is there actual numbers? Because it should be easy to determine for the "scientists" who want to make these spectacular claims.

According to Wikipedia, there are numbers showing that the cranial capacity of the Paracas skulls is not significantly different from normal Peruvian skulls, but the cited source is behind a paywall:

Freiss, M. & Baylac, Michel (2003), "Exploring artificial cranial deformation using elliptic Fourier analysis of procrustes aligned outlines", Am. J. Phys. Anthropol. 122 (1)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by herebedragons, posted 12-15-2015 3:12 PM herebedragons has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 4966
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 355 of 436 (774291)
12-15-2015 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by caffeine
12-15-2015 3:36 PM


No mention of aliens or giants

Undeformed Peruvian crania appear to have a craniofacial architecture that is distinct from the corresponding shapes seen in the Japanese and Inuit. They are characterized by anteriorly protrud- ing faces and a relatively flat angle between the foramen magnum and the basioccipital, which leads to a more vertically oriented foramen magnum axis. In this sense, they are somewhat flatter. When exposed to circumferential deformation, this pattern becomes globally reinforced with respect to at least the face. In addition, the face then also protrudes inferiorly, nasion protrudes anteriorly, whereas the foramen magnum axis continues to become more horizontal in its orientation. Therefore, our results are generally consistent with previously published data (Anto ́n, 1989b; Kohn et al., 1993), but do not agree in some important aspects. Notably, we find the effects of artificial deformation on the basioccip- ital to be less than previously observed, whereas the effects on the face observed here are similar to other studies or even more important. Given that statisti- cal discrimination is not as good when facial fea- tures are not taken into account, we conclude that the effects of artificial deformation on the face out- weigh those observed on the basioccipital portion. Generally, these effects seem to emphasize morpho- logical trends that already exist in populations that practiced intentional deformation.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 356 of 436 (775161)
12-29-2015 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by Theodoric
12-14-2015 11:01 PM


Theodoric writes:

Because you have presented no evidence for giants

Actually I have - but you chose to ignore it. Megalithic structures eg the Sacsayhauman.

Anyway, it is not my place to provide evidence. You can do your own research if you want. And if you don't want to that's fine too. I'm not sure why you need proof or evidence. It's a stale subject area and only those who can be arsed are going to bother. Even the evidence I have provided is only for my benefit. I only offer it in case you are interested and I certainly wouldn't provide it to those who demand it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Theodoric, posted 12-14-2015 11:01 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Percy, posted 12-29-2015 9:41 AM Big_Al35 has responded
 Message 360 by ringo, posted 12-29-2015 10:52 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded
 Message 363 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-29-2015 2:00 PM Big_Al35 has not yet responded
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Percy
Member
Posts: 15674
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 357 of 436 (775162)
12-29-2015 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Big_Al35
12-29-2015 9:04 AM


Big Al35 writes:

Anyway, it is not my place to provide evidence.

It *is* your place to provide evidence. From the Forum Guidelines:

  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

I'm not sure why you need proof or evidence.

It shouldn't need to be explained why evidence is the foundation for what we believe is true about the real world. If you're not going to argue from evidence then you shouldn't be in a science thread.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Big_Al35, posted 12-29-2015 9:04 AM Big_Al35 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by Big_Al35, posted 12-29-2015 10:34 AM Percy has responded

    
Big_Al35
Member
Posts: 384
Joined: 06-02-2010


Message 358 of 436 (775165)
12-29-2015 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 357 by Percy
12-29-2015 9:41 AM


Percy writes:

It *is* your place to provide evidence. From the Forum Guidelines

No - it is not my place to provide evidence. And on this point I am quite happy to be barred if this is so.

And even though it is not my place to provide evidence I have done so. Which I notice you have ignored - again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Percy, posted 12-29-2015 9:41 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by JonF, posted 12-29-2015 10:52 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded
 Message 361 by Percy, posted 12-29-2015 11:04 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded
 Message 362 by RAZD, posted 12-29-2015 11:24 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 3878
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 359 of 436 (775168)
12-29-2015 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 358 by Big_Al35
12-29-2015 10:34 AM


It is not obvious why what you have provided supports your position.

Please explain.

And, yes, it is your place to provide evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Big_Al35, posted 12-29-2015 10:34 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13435
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 360 of 436 (775169)
12-29-2015 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Big_Al35
12-29-2015 9:04 AM


Big_Al35 writes:

Because you have presented no evidence for giants

Actually I have - but you chose to ignore it.

Your evidence was not ignored; it was evaluated. It turns out that your interpretation of the evidence is incorrect.

Big_Al35 writes:

Megalithic structures eg the Sacsayhauman.


Mega-structures are not evidence of mega-humans.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Big_Al35, posted 12-29-2015 9:04 AM Big_Al35 has not yet responded

  
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