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Author Topic:   PC Gone Too Far
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1138 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 4 of 734 (782978)
05-01-2016 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
05-01-2016 11:57 AM


The Pendulum of PC
Seems to be aimed at fixing the earlier PC status of the installation.
First of all in the 1860 presidential election Kentucky went 63% Unionist (Bell & Douglas) and 36% secessionist (Breckinridge).
Second, over 100k white & 24k black Kentuckians fought for the Union while 24K to 40K fought for the Confederates.
Yet the monument honors only the Kentucky Confederate dead. Not the more numerous Union dead. Or, in my opinion the more honest, all the dead including civilians.
Check out the list of Civil War monuments in Kentucky.
List of American Civil War monuments in Kentucky - Wikipedia
Heavy on Confederate. If the Confederates started the war because they lost the election, why should they be honored?
Does anyone know how the Civil War is taught in Kentucky schools? Is it the "War of Northern Aggression" PC crap like my college roommate from South Carolina learned.
Edited by 14174dm, : typo & clarification
Edited by 14174dm, : clarity (I hope)

This message is a reply to:
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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1138 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 44 of 734 (783224)
05-04-2016 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by NoNukes
05-04-2016 12:10 PM


Re: No Honor in Treason and Bigotry
From memory of poking around internet, the primary reason to move the monument now is for realigning streets in the area. Trying to find link to that story.
According to Wikipedia, movements were proposed in 1920s and 1940s for road construction but were protested.
If it's in the way and sits in a little island amongst pavement that people may not deal with to visit the memorial, wouldn't a place like an actual park or cemetery be more appropriate and visited anyway?

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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1138 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 70 of 734 (783565)
05-06-2016 3:02 PM


Tone of the memorial
I can't think of an example of a physical memorial but I keep thinking of songs that don't glorify war or the cause or whatever. I am thinking of songs and memorials that speak to the loss and the waste of war.
For me, memorials should also speak to later generations of what a war does to the people involved and how long they really last. The Civil War lasted four years and cost at least 750,000 lives. Wikipedia quotes one source as
By one estimate, the war claimed the lives of 10 percent of all Northern males 20—45 years old, and 30 percent of all Southern white males aged 18—40
from Irish Song Lyrics - Willie McBride a.k.a. Green Fields of France (mis spelling & all)
Willie McBride a.k.a. Green Fields of France
CHORUS
Did they beat the drum slowly did they play the fife lowly,
did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
did the band play the last post and chorus,
did the pipes play the "Flowers of the Forest"
Well how do you do young Willie McBride?
do you mind if I sit down here by your graveside
and rest for a while 'neath the warm summer sun
I've been walkin' all day and I'm nearly done
I see by your gravestone you were only nineteen
when you joined the great fallen of 1916
Well I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean
Willie McBride was it slow and obscene CHORUS
And the beautiful wife or the sweetheart for life
in some faithful heart are you forever enshrined
and although you died back in 1916
in that faithful heart are you forever nineteen?
or are you a stranger without even a name
enshrined forever behind a glass pane
in an ould photograph torn tattered and stained,
fading to yellow in a brown leather frame? CHORUS
Now the sun shines down on the green fields of France
a warm summer wind makes the red poppys dance
The trences have vanished under the plows,
there's no gas no barbed wire, there's no guns firing now
but here in this graveyard it's still No Man's land,
the countless white crosses stand mute in the sand
for man's blind indifference to his fellow man,
to a whole generation that was butchered and damned CHORUS
Now Willie McBride I can't help wonder why
Do those who lie here do they know why they died
Did they really beleive when they answered the call
did they really believe that this war would end wars
Forever this song of suffereing and shame
the killing the dying was all done in vain
for young Willie McBride it's all happened again,
and again, and again, and again and again
Edited by 14174dm, : No reason given.

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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1138 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 110 of 734 (784950)
05-26-2016 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by New Cat's Eye
05-26-2016 9:41 AM


Re: Tone of the memorial
Just to be picky - what cemetery? If there was one at that location, it's gone now. The whole area is paved over and built on.
This monument is 1 mile from St Stephan's Cemetery and 4 miles from the Cave Hill Cemetery.
If the intent is/was to honor the Confederate dead, shouldn't it be with them?

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 Message 104 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-26-2016 9:41 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1138 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 118 of 734 (784969)
05-26-2016 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by New Cat's Eye
05-26-2016 2:44 PM


Re: Tone of the memorial
If the monument was intended to honor the dead buried in Cave Hill Cemetery, why is the monument 4 miles away? I don't expect anyone to really know 100+ years later. If the more public location was intended as an affront/political statement/whatever, does that mean the particular location is sacred somehow?
In this case, I would think that the current location must be an agreement between the people who paid for (own?) the monument and those who own the land it currently sits on.
Off hand I would say the land belongs to either the city/county or the state as part of the road right of way. Short of an existing agreement, the land owner should be able to say "Lovely monument but I am going to use that land for my own purpose so move it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-26-2016 2:44 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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