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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Taq
Member
Posts: 7610
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 2311 of 2663 (837488)
08-03-2018 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2310 by Percy
08-03-2018 3:21 PM


Re: Honest reporting from Fox News! Who woulda thought!
Percy writes:

Everyone's heard of Trump lap dog Sean Hannity, but probably few of Shep Smith, who has a 3 PM news show on Fox. In this video Smith debunks one Hannity claim after another.

I still can't figure out how Shep has survived at Fox News. A gay guy keeps his job while actually reporting facts now and then, and also calls people out when they pull conspiracy theories out of their ass. I guess they have to keep one semi-respectable journalist to at least keep up the appearance that they care about reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2310 by Percy, posted 08-03-2018 3:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2312 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2018 4:35 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2312 of 2663 (837489)
08-03-2018 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2311 by Taq
08-03-2018 3:31 PM


Re: Honest reporting from Fox News! Who woulda thought!
A gay guy keeps his job while actually reporting facts now and then

Yep. Shep is on at 3 pm being watched by next to nobody. Hannity at 9 Eastern of course.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2311 by Taq, posted 08-03-2018 3:31 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2313 by Chiroptera, posted 08-03-2018 4:39 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 2313 of 2663 (837490)
08-03-2018 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2312 by NoNukes
08-03-2018 4:35 PM


Re: Honest reporting from Fox News! Who woulda thought!
Well, evidently enough people watch him to bombard Fox with letters demanding he be fired any time he reports an actual fact.


Oh, God! Pride of Man, broken in the dust again! -- Quicksilver Messenger Service

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2312 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2018 4:35 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5603
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 2314 of 2663 (837495)
08-03-2018 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2295 by Percy
08-02-2018 8:51 AM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
Most states do not require proof of citizenship to register to vote.

But it should, is the point. You need identification just to get something as simple as traveling domestically. Why wouldn't you need it for something like voting? The problem is accountability. How do you prevent voter fraud without it. All kinds of shady practices, like people registering dead people to vote, have been implemented as an underhanded tactic to procure more votes.

There is no evidence of voter fraud by illegal immigrants.

Agreed. It's not the illegal immigrants that's the problem, it's the people [let's be honest, Democrats] who use it as a tactic to gain more votes than is allowable. The DNC panders to this base in exchange for votes. That's where the problem lies, not the illegal immigrants themselves... then again, they aren't allowed to vote domestically. And if you can't see why that's a problem, imagine a country the size of say, Luxembourg. Imagine if the RNC or DNC paid for Americans to go over there to exploit their lax stance on voting as a way to manipulate votes. The Koch brothers are certainly wealthy enough to fund a venture like that if there was an incentive great enough.

On the one hand it seems only right that we insure that only citizens vote, but on the other hand requiring documentary evidence will self-evidently reduce the voter rolls of the poor the most.

Yeah, we've heard that nonsense before... that it affects poor people, that it affects blacks, it affects immigrants, etc... There is nothing factual about that at all. I also don't think white liberals understand how condescending and patronizing they are to the very communities they profess to care so much about. Without even trying to be, the people featured in this are so unbelievably offensive...

If you believe that, then explain how poor people receive SSI benefits without something as simple as an i.d. card, which is accessible to virtually anyone that puts forth a modicum of effort.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2295 by Percy, posted 08-02-2018 8:51 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2315 by ringo, posted 08-03-2018 5:27 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 2317 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2018 8:03 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 2321 by Percy, posted 08-04-2018 9:24 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 2325 by Percy, posted 08-04-2018 10:42 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 2329 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2018 12:07 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 2369 by Taq, posted 08-06-2018 5:22 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15740
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2315 of 2663 (837496)
08-03-2018 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2018 5:20 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
Hyroglyphx writes:

You need identification just to get something as simple as traveling domestically.


Remember when we used to condemn the Soviets for restricting internal travel? I would call emulating them a step in the wrong direction.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 5:20 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 2316 of 2663 (837497)
08-03-2018 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2295 by Percy
08-02-2018 8:51 AM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
For example, Kansas had a citizenship requirement until recently, but a judge struck it down in June, ruling that the National Voter Registration Act requires that states make it convenient to register, which means only having to swear you're a U.S. citizen under penalty of perjury.

To be more precise, Kansas had a requirement to provide proof that you're a citizen.

And just this past Wednesday, Kris Kobach was fined $26 000 for violating the judge's injunction to stop his nonsense.



Oh, God! Pride of Man, broken in the dust again! -- Quicksilver Messenger Service

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2295 by Percy, posted 08-02-2018 8:51 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2317 of 2663 (837499)
08-03-2018 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2018 5:20 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
t's not the illegal immigrants that's the problem, it's the people [let's be honest, Democrats] who use it as a tactic to gain more votes than is allowable

There is zero evidence that that in-person voter fraud happens on any significant scale and even less evidence that this is a tactic employed Democrats rather than the fraudulent voter. Why in the world you would bother to post something like that without offering any support is beyond ridiculous. Can you offer any? Why is it that the registration practice we are talking about are in just about every state and not just California. Do you understand that the requirements are part of the federal guidelines, or are you just mouthing off?

Imagine if the RNC or DNC paid for Americans to go over there to exploit their lax stance on voting as a way to manipulate votes.

And you are comparing this to what tactic currently in use here?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 5:20 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2318 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 9:47 PM NoNukes has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5603
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 2318 of 2663 (837501)
08-03-2018 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2317 by NoNukes
08-03-2018 8:03 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
There is zero evidence that that in-person voter fraud happens on any significant scale and even less evidence that this is a tactic employed Democrats rather than the fraudulent voter. Why in the world you would bother to post something like that without offering any support is beyond ridiculous. Can you offer any? Why is it that the registration practice we are talking about are in just about every state and not just California. Do you understand that the requirements are part of the federal guidelines, or are you just mouthing off?

Yes, I know they are part of federal guidelines. And I think it's a good idea to amend those guidelines. I'm not arguing that voter identification hasn't been decided, I'm saying it ought to be on par with, you know, the rest of the planet.

The Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, etc all have some kind of sensible legislation ensuring that people aren't voting more than once, that they aren't creating fake people to vote, or something as simple as disallowing a felon or an alien to vote in the election process.

But since we're on the subject, what is your reason why you think identifying yourself before casting a ballot is a bad idea? The only possible reason I could surmise is because you vote Democrat and you are aware that Democrats pander to the immigrant vote to bolster its numbers. By saying no id is necessary, obviously you're going to get a few people slip through the cracks. Surely you must at least concede that possibility. I'm not trying to be insensitive to your views or put words in your mouth, but what other possible motive could you have?

On the flip side, what are the negative effects of properly identifying people to vote?

The only reason I've ever heard is because it "targets minorities." How, exactly, is a complete mystery. I'm open to your thoughts if you have another narrative that I'm neglecting to consider

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2317 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2018 8:03 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2319 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2018 1:38 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 2322 by Chiroptera, posted 08-04-2018 9:44 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(6)
Message 2319 of 2663 (837502)
08-04-2018 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 2318 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2018 9:47 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
But since we're on the subject, what is your reason why you think identifying yourself before casting a ballot is a bad idea? The only possible reason I could surmise is because you vote Democrat and you are aware that Democrats pander to the immigrant vote to bolster its numbers.

The only possible reason you can surmise? Is that supposed to be some kind of support for your assertion? Your limited thought processes and willingness to impugn motives and cast aspersions is some kind of proof? This is the marc9000 method of arguing a point. Since it is the first time that I've seen this from you, I'll assume that your intent was not malicious.

The reason voter ID can be a bad idea, is because for the sake of preventing fraud that you have no evidence exists, you want to implement a solution that causes difficulty for a group of voters. If instead you came up with a scheme for identification that does not create those difficulties voters then put me down for supporting it.

In NC where I live, we have documented evidence that the Republicans sought to require methods for identification that they thought Democrats were less likely to have. According to the court record, legislatures reviewed voting information and then put in features that hampered voting for democrats. For example, gun permits are legitimate identification, but state issued college identifications are not. Please note that federal law is that students are allowed to vote in local elections and that requirements that they have NC state IDs and drivers licenses when many of them are not even allowed to have cars on campus serve no purpose other than making it difficult for students to vote.

Fix up the politics and the issues I care about, and you've got a new supporter for voter ID. But I think the impacts are deliberate. I think Republicans are deathly afraid of college students, homeless folks, and the elderly minorities becoming motivated to vote and then going out and doing so. And in some cases, for example Pennsylvania, the GOP is on record of expressing their intent to suppress the vote, so I don't have to rely on paranoid thinking or limited imagination to come up with my rationale.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2318 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 9:47 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2320 by jar, posted 08-04-2018 7:05 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 2323 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-04-2018 10:00 AM NoNukes has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


(2)
Message 2320 of 2663 (837506)
08-04-2018 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2319 by NoNukes
08-04-2018 1:38 AM


No Taxation without Representation
“Taxation without representation is tyranny.”
James Otis maybe?

Anyone remember those statements?

So in that spirit which is certainly American voter id requirements should be something showing the person has paid taxes; say a receipt from the 7-11 or McDonalds showing sales tax was paid.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2319 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2018 1:38 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17968
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 2321 of 2663 (837507)
08-04-2018 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2018 5:20 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
Hyroglyphx writes:

Most states do not require proof of citizenship to register to vote.

But it should, is the point. You need identification just to get something as simple as traveling domestically. Why wouldn't you need it for something like voting?

I said "proof of citizenship" and you replied about ID - they're not the same thing. For instance, the Kansas voter ID law was struck down because it included an actual proof of citizenship. Here in my state of New Hampshire we have a voter ID law, but to register you don't actually need any ID or proof of citizenship. You can sign a Qualified Voter Affidavit, under oath, in front of an election official. No ID or proof of citizenship required.

And when you vote you also don't need any ID. You can instead choose to execute what's called a challenged voter affidavit, which involves a photograph and a witnessed signature on the affidavit.

Proof of citizenship is most often a birth certificate. Who do you think is most likely not to have a birth certificate, the poor or the rich?

The problem is accountability.

Accountability?

How do you prevent voter fraud without it.

You're asking how do we prevent voter fraud without accountability? Like laws to punish those who commit voter fraud? Don't such laws already exist?

All kinds of shady practices, like people registering dead people to vote, have been implemented as an underhanded tactic to procure more votes.

Registering dead people? Sounds labor intensive. Here in New Hampshire voter registration requires proof of residency in the town you're registering, like a driver's license, a rental agreement from the past year, a property tax bill from the past year, a motor vehicle registration from the past year, a tax return from the past year, a dated public utility bill from the past year with your name and address on it, etc. It could be done, but not in any kind of meaningful volume, and certainly not in a small town like mine where the town clerk wouldn't fail to notice the first time you registered as someone else. My town isn't too big:

There is a hole concerning registration of dead people. Once registered one is registered forever. One never has to reregister. There is no process for removing dead people from the voter roles. The town clerk does not scan the obituary pages seeking out deceased voters. The only way one is removed from the voter roles is if the town clerk is sent a formal notice of death.

Presumably one could present one's driver's license and vote as oneself, then return a few hours later and vote as one's deceased father (or mother if you're female) by showing their driver's license (expired ID's are fine if you're over 65), and just hope the same clerk isn't still there and recognizes you.

There is no evidence of voter fraud by illegal immigrants.

Agreed.

Great.

It's not the illegal immigrants that's the problem, it's the people [let's be honest, Democrats] who use it as a tactic to gain more votes than is allowable. The DNC panders to this base in exchange for votes.

You just agreed that there's no evidence of voter fraud by illegal immigrants. How could the DNC be pandering to illegal immigrants for votes when there's no evidence of voter fraud by illegal immigrants?

Are there any other political parties that pander for votes to their base. Does this look familiar? It's a video of Trump's rally in Pennsylvania Thursday night:

That's where the problem lies, not the illegal immigrants themselves... then again, they aren't allowed to vote domestically. And if you can't see why that's a problem, imagine a country the size of say, Luxembourg. Imagine if the RNC or DNC paid for Americans to go over there to exploit their lax stance on voting as a way to manipulate votes. The Koch brothers are certainly wealthy enough to fund a venture like that if there was an incentive great enough.

I agree that the Koch brothers are wealthy enough to successfully pull off many illegal things.

On the one hand it seems only right that we insure that only citizens vote, but on the other hand requiring documentary evidence will self-evidently reduce the voter rolls of the poor the most.

Yeah, we've heard that nonsense before...

First, it's not nonsense. There can be do doubt that those least able to provide documentary evidence of citizenship are the poor and minorities. Voter ID laws that include a proof of citizenship have already been struck down in several states across the country.

Second, meaningful evidence is accumulating that voter ID laws disenfranchise the poor and minorities the most, for example Voter ID Laws Really Do Discriminate.

...that it affects poor people, that it affects blacks, it affects immigrants, etc... There is nothing factual about that at all.

You should maybe check your facts before making your attestations.

I also don't think white liberals understand how condescending and patronizing they are to the very communities they profess to care so much about. Without even trying to be, the people featured in this are so unbelievably offensive...

Of course black people in Harlem know all about IDs and the Internet and DMVs and smart phones. Harlem's in New York City on Manhattan Island just a half mile north of Central Park. New York City is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and not a single black Ami interviewed was poverty stricken. The students Ami interviewed seemed to be referring to poor, rural people. Ami would have received different answers from the black people in this video:.

If you believe that, then explain how poor people receive SSI benefits without something as simple as an i.d. card, which is accessible to virtually anyone that puts forth a modicum of effort.

Looking this stuff up, SSI is for blind and disabled adults and poor children. Welfare is for poor adults and families living at or below 200% of the poverty level (deemed low income) or at or below 100% of the poverty level (poverty stricken). Welfare doesn't require a photo ID, they seem to be fairly flexible with regard to IDs. It's kind of hard to have a program when few beneficiaries qualify, so allowances must be made.

But not everyone poor is on welfare, only 23% according to How welfare reform changed American poverty, in 9 charts.

So let's imagine you're working poor. You have no Internet, no car, no cell phone. You walk to work or hitch a ride or take public transportation. You never had a birth certificate. Imagine the effort it would take to qualify to vote according to the recently overturned Kansas voter ID law.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 5:20 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2334 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-04-2018 3:32 PM Percy has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 2322 of 2663 (837509)
08-04-2018 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2318 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2018 9:47 PM


Expand the franchise!
The Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, etc all have some kind of sensible legislation ...or something as simple as disallowing a felon....

Just as a point of fact, all the European democracies, as far as I know, allow people convicted of felonies to vote once they've completed their sentences.

Those three countries in particular allow people to vote while they're in prison serving their sentences. (Well, actually, I'm not sure about the Netherlands; my quick internet search was giving me conflicting information.)

I don't know how you feel about that; are you sure that these countries are appropriate models for our own electoral policies? I'd think it'ss great if you do, but I just want to make sure you're being consistent when you insist we need to be "on par with, you know, the rest of the planet. "

Added by edit:
Oh, and howdy, Hyro. It's been a long time since we've chatted!

Edited by Chiroptera, : Typos.

Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.



Oh, God! Pride of Man, broken in the dust again! -- Quicksilver Messenger Service

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2318 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 9:47 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2336 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-04-2018 3:57 PM Chiroptera has responded
 Message 2349 by caffeine, posted 08-05-2018 10:08 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5603
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 2323 of 2663 (837510)
08-04-2018 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2319 by NoNukes
08-04-2018 1:38 AM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
In NC where I live, we have documented evidence that the Republicans sought to require methods for identification that they thought Democrats were less likely to have. According to the court record, legislatures reviewed voting information and then put in features that hampered voting for democrats. For example, gun permits are legitimate identification, but state issued college identifications are not. Please note that federal law is that students are allowed to vote in local elections and that requirements that they have NC state IDs and drivers licenses when many of them are not even allowed to have cars on campus serve no purpose other than making it difficult for students to vote.

So how about simple legislation that says a state issued i.d.? Simple. A state i.d. is accessible to anyone.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2319 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2018 1:38 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2326 by NoNukes, posted 08-04-2018 11:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 2324 of 2663 (837511)
08-04-2018 10:21 AM


No evidence for voter fraud
Wow! This article on the Guardian's website today is certainly timely.

Documents disprove White House voter fraud claims, says ex-member of Trump commission

I'm wondering whether this topic should get its own thread?

Anyway, as most of us may remember, Trump created a commission headed by Kobach to document the extensive fraud that is occurring in US elections. The commission was eventually disbanded, in part because most states' election officials, including the Republican ones, refused to cooperate beyond giving the commission (and usually requiring the legally mandated fees) the information that is publicly available.

Also disbanded in part because, even as Kobach was claiming that the commission was uncovering fraud they were denying other members of this very commission access to the documents that they were using.

Well, after going to court, the other members of the commission finally have access to the documents they were supposed to have access to because they were members of the bloody commission.

Matt Dunlap is one of members that finally has access to the documents.

“The sections on evidence of voter fraud are glaringly empty,” Dunlap reported in an official letter to Kobach and the vice-president, Mike Pence, the commission chair. “After months of litigation that should not have been necessary, I can report that the statements by Vice Chair Kobach and the White House were, in fact, false.”

What were the lies?

Kobach told Breitbart News at the time that the commission had found more than 8,000 instances of double voting in 21 states and close to 100,000 instances of voter fraud, even if fewer than 1,000 of them had resulted in a criminal conviction.

The materials are to be published.

Added by edit:
Minor correction: Technically, Pence was the head of the commission. But Kobach was the real driving force.

Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.



Oh, God! Pride of Man, broken in the dust again! -- Quicksilver Messenger Service

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17968
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 2325 of 2663 (837512)
08-04-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2018 5:20 PM


Re: .50 Cal Jesus Kills for your Sins
Since it's been nearly an hour since I replied I'll post a second reply instead of an AbE.

As you know, after the 2016 election Trump appointed a panel to investigate voter fraud because he believed he lost the popular vote because of millions of fraudulent votes. The panel disbanded without finding any meaningful voter fraud. Excerpts from the article:

quote:
Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap, one of the 11 members of the commission formed by President Trump to investigate supposed voter fraud, issued a scathing rebuke of the disbanded panel on Friday, accusing Vice Chair Kris Kobach and the White House of making false statements and saying that he had concluded that the panel had been set up to try to validate the president’s baseless claims about fraudulent votes in the 2016 election.

Dunlap, one of four Democrats on the panel, made the statements in a report he sent to the commission’s two leaders — Vice President Pence and Kobach, who is Kansas’s secretary of state — after reviewing more than 8,000 documents from the group’s work, which he acquired only after a legal fight despite his participation on the panel.


About that second paragraph, we already knew that the Republicans on the panel were refusing to share data and documents with the Democrats, but this paragraph states it again. Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap had to go to court to get the information that should have been available to him as a member of the panel.

The article continues:

quote:
Dunlap said that the commission’s documents that were turned over to him underscore the hollowness of those claims: “they do not contain evidence of widespread voter fraud,” he said in his report, adding that some of the documentation seemed to indicate that the commission was predicting it would find evidence of fraud, evincing “a troubling bias.”

In particular, Dunlap pointed to an outline for a report the commission was working on that circulated in November 2017. The outline included sections for “Improper voter registration practices,” and “Instances of fraudulent or improper voting,” though the sections themselves were blank as they awaited evidence, speaking to what Dunlap said indicated a push for preordained conclusions.

“After reading this,” Dunlap said of the more than 8,000 pages of documents in an interview with The Washington Post, “I see that it wasn’t just a matter of investigating President Trump’s claims that three to five million people voted illegally, but the goal of the commission seems to have been to validate those claims.”


To summarize:

  • The Republicans on the committee shut the Democrats on the committee out of meetings and gave them no access to meeting materials.
  • When Democrats requested the right to attend meetings, they were denied.
  • When Democrates requested the meeting materials, they were denied.
  • The Republicans drafted boilerplate and headers under which they expected to fill in voter fraud evidence, but they're empty.

The article continues:

quote:
President Trump’s claim that as many as three to five million fraudulent votes were cast in the 2016 election remains one of his most notable falsehoods.

No credible evidence has ever been produced, by the White House or anyone else, to substantiate the claim. The commission, formally known as the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, was formed in May 2017, and it quickly faced controversy from a wide array of groups, including many state officials from both political parties who objected to its requests for detailed data on voter rolls. By the time it was disbanded in January, it had drawn at least eight lawsuits, including Dunlap’s.

That lawsuit is not yet resolved. Dunlap says he believes that the committee may yet have more information to procure, while the government has said it wants to terminate the litigation, said Clark Pettig, a spokesman for American Oversight.


Did you get that? Intrusive requests to states for detailed voter roll data. Eight lawsuits and counting. No evidence of voter fraud uncovered. The Republicans just want the committee to disappear so they can forget the whole thing, including the litigation, but that probably won't happen.

When you make things up it eventually catches up with you, even if you're the president.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2314 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2018 5:20 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
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