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Author Topic:   Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection'
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 25 of 323 (806161)
04-23-2017 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Davidjay
04-22-2017 11:52 AM


On selection
Attempting to make sense out of your word salad is very difficult. But here is some information on selection.
We can generally graph a normal distribution as a bell-shaped curve (first graph). A normal population will have quite a range of variation in a wide number of traits, and a bell-shaped curve can be drawn for each.
If there is negative selection pressure on one of those traits, the left side of the graph (low performers) will be more effected than the middle or the right side. Over time this can cause the whole curve to shift to the right (second graph), reflecting population change due to selection pressure.
In a widespread population, some sub-populations may be more effected by particular selection pressures than others. In those cases the sub-populations will change more than the rest of the population, resulting in a bimodal curve (third graph). This can lead directly to speciation.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Davidjay, posted 04-22-2017 11:52 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Davidjay, posted 04-23-2017 11:36 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 28 of 323 (806168)
04-23-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Davidjay
04-23-2017 11:36 AM


Re: On selection
No, your evolutionary experts just stated categorically that populations do not branch out, and are equally evolved at any given time, and consequently the same genetically at a given time.
You are contradicting your experts HERE.
Bullshit. Research "ring species" and you'll see examples of this.
I realize, they were double speaking and trying to evade the obvious conclusion that evolution is a racist doctrine. Nevertheless to go further, you or they must make up your minds what your doctrine teaches...
It either is a branching out of a population making a new species, step by step, or it is NOT a branching out, and is not racist.
You say it is a branching out, to try or attempt to show evolution logic or proof, so get your experts HERE to change their posts on
Evolution is a racist doctrine.
You can not have it BOTH ways, and keep changing your doctrine.
Your congregation has to speak the same thing and have the same principles. Choose a leader or preacher, and have him/her state your principles and be consistent.
Then Ill destroy your graphs from there.
More word salad. If you had as much logic, reason, and evidence as you have overweening arrogance you might get somewhere.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Davidjay, posted 04-23-2017 11:36 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Davidjay, posted 04-23-2017 11:58 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 30 of 323 (806175)
04-23-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Davidjay
04-23-2017 11:58 AM


Re: On selection
Coyote, by not answering or studying you lose the argument and put your evolutionary side at further risk.
When you respond to my post in a meaningful way you'll get an answer.
Your claims are nonsense, and most posts are a combination of preaching and word salad.
Perhaps you can get away with such in your bible college or wherever you preach, but not here.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Davidjay, posted 04-23-2017 11:58 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 92 of 323 (806467)
04-25-2017 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by New Cat's Eye
04-25-2017 2:02 PM


Re: Why cant evolutionists explain their theories
Why can't they have an intelligent conversation?
That's a rhetorical question, right?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-25-2017 2:02 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 95 of 323 (807605)
05-04-2017 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by CRR
05-04-2017 7:07 AM


Re: Ignorance of evolution processes and results
So if "A" is dogs, then all the descendants are still members of the "dog" kind.
You realize that places humans in the "ape" kind, right?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by CRR, posted 05-04-2017 7:07 AM CRR has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 158 of 323 (808646)
05-11-2017 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by CRR
05-11-2017 9:35 PM


Re: Lactase and Nylonase
You should avoid citing creationist sources in the Science Forums.
Creationist organizations almost always have by-laws or other requirements for membership that include accepting the bible as the absolute word of god, and viewing it as superior to any real-world evidence.
As such, they cannot be relied upon to either do science or comment on science without that huge bias. They are required to misrepresent, ignore, deny, or otherwise "hand-wave" away any evidence that contradicts their biblical beliefs.
Face it--those organizations are anti-science. Why would you cite them in a Science Forum?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by CRR, posted 05-11-2017 9:35 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by CRR, posted 05-11-2017 9:58 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 160 of 323 (808648)
05-11-2017 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by CRR
05-11-2017 9:58 PM


Re: Lactase and Nylonase
Anyway Evolution News is not Creationist.
Evolution News is produced by the Discovery Institute. They are the ones responsible for the Wedge Document. I think I posted information on that couple of days ago.
The Wedge Document, an internal fund raising memo, was leaked. It shows they want to destroy science as we know it and replace it with "theistic" science.
See:
What is the “Wedge Document”? | The Sensuous Curmudgeon
So, yes, they are a creationist outfit and their pronouncements are not fit for the Science Forum.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by CRR, posted 05-11-2017 9:58 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by CRR, posted 05-11-2017 10:46 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 191 of 323 (808880)
05-14-2017 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Davidjay
05-14-2017 10:19 AM


Re: Re:Answer the question, Are babies different now than before

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Davidjay, posted 05-14-2017 10:19 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 203 of 323 (808921)
05-14-2017 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by CRR
05-14-2017 8:50 PM


Discovery Institute is creationist start to finish
Here's their tax form. Detect any creationist activities there?
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/...911521697_201512_990.pdf
(Note: intelligent design has been determined to be creationism in a federal district court.)
Edited by Coyote, : Spelling

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by CRR, posted 05-14-2017 8:50 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by CRR, posted 05-14-2017 11:21 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2096 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 206 of 323 (808927)
05-15-2017 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by CRR
05-14-2017 11:21 PM


Re: Discovery Institute is creationist start to finish
Where in that 49 pages does it say they are a creationist organisation?
From page 2, describing the Center for Science and Culture (about 60% of their budget):
THE CENTER FOR SCIENCE AND CULTURE PROMOTES RESEARCH, EDUCATION, AND DISCUSSION RELATING TO THE SCIENTIFIC THEORY OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN THE CENTER'S ACTIVITIES INCLUDE THE SPONSORSHIP OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND WRITING, THE PRODUCTION OF BOOKS, ARTICLES, REPORTS, AND CURRICULA, THE ORGANIZING OF SEMINARS AND CONFERENCES, AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND OPERATION OF EDUCATIONAL WEBSITES, PODCASTS, AND VIDEOS
See also the Wedge Strategy:
The Wedge Document | National Center for Science Education
And what Federal Court are you referring to?
From Wiki:
Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al. (400 F. Supp. 2d 707, Docket No. 4cv2688) was the first direct challenge brought in the United States federal courts testing a public school district policy that required the teaching of intelligent design.[1] In October 2004, the Dover Area School District of York County, Pennsylvania, changed its biology teaching curriculum to require that intelligent design be presented as an alternative to evolution theory, and that Of Pandas and People, a textbook advocating intelligent design, was to be used as a reference book.[2] The prominence of this textbook during the trial was such that the case is sometimes referred to as the Dover Panda Trial,[3][4] a name which deliberately recalls the infamous Scopes Monkey Trial in Tennessee, 80 years earlier. The plaintiffs successfully argued that intelligent design is a form of creationism, and that the school board policy violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The judge's decision sparked considerable response from both supporters and critics.
Eleven parents of students in Dover, York County, Pennsylvania, near the city of York, sued the Dover Area School District over the school board requirement that a statement presenting intelligent design as "an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin's view" was to be read aloud in ninth-grade science classes when evolution was taught.[5] The plaintiffs were represented by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AU) and Pepper Hamilton LLP. The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) acted as consultants for the plaintiffs. The defendants were represented by the Thomas More Law Center (TMLC). The Foundation for Thought and Ethics, publisher of Of Pandas and People, tried to join the lawsuit late as a defendant but was denied for multiple reasons.[6]
The suit was brought in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania seeking declaratory and injunctive relief.
More
Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District - Wikipedia
Another tidbit:
Discovery Institute An Insider’s Tale
Discovery Institute — An Insider’s Tale | The Sensuous Curmudgeon

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by CRR, posted 05-14-2017 11:21 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by CRR, posted 05-15-2017 2:16 AM Coyote has not replied

  
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