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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Faith
Member
Posts: 26797
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 151 of 316 (820296)
09-18-2017 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
09-18-2017 6:57 PM


Re: Carrot juice - testimonials
It's sounding more and more like carrot juice alone is the most powerful remedy. Here's another testimonial.

http://cancerisover.blogspot.com/

What did not work: The year prior to trying carrots I tried various other tactics to get rid of these tumors. I initially tried water fasting. I did 5 days of water fasting at the beginning of every month, with a 9 day water fast one month. During the rest of the days I ate my normal organic foods. (Inspired by the studies done by Valter Longo & immune system regeneration) Result: the tumors continued to grow. Then I followed a strict low calorie Ketogenic organic diet with 2 days water fasting/week. (Inspired by the work on the Metabolic Theory of Cancer by Thomas Seyfried. Result: the tumors continued to grow. Then I did a 38 day organic Juice Fast with mostly green vegetables. I followed that with an organic GAPS diet heavy with bone broth & soups/salads. Result: the tumors continued to grow. Then I went back to following my regular organic diet with 1/2 GALLON CARROT JUICE daily for 4 months. RESULT: MY TUMORS SHRUNK IN HALF!!!!

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 09-18-2017 6:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10130
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 152 of 316 (820297)
09-18-2017 8:05 PM


Well, I'm a big fan of [playing the numbers in street lotteries ] and I do believe the anecdotes about [ folks winning some cash ]. There are just too many such stories to ignore. It would be very nice if somebody did a controlled experiment with it of course and I hope somebody will get around to it.

Faith always believes the anecdotes even if there are controlled studies. This is not the first topic on which this exact argument has been introduced. She followed exactly the same logic when it comes to a link between vaccines and autism. After she saw a confirming video, there was no point in even discussing contrary logic or reasoning.

This is exactly the type of logic that gets stories of witchcraft confirmed or convinces others that black cats are bad luck. If you are not convinced by such arguments, the congratulations. You are normal.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 09-18-2017 8:08 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 09-19-2017 2:34 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26797
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 153 of 316 (820298)
09-18-2017 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by NoNukes
09-18-2017 8:05 PM


Did you actually READ any of the testimonials?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by NoNukes, posted 09-18-2017 8:05 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by NoNukes, posted 09-19-2017 1:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26797
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 154 of 316 (820299)
09-18-2017 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by NoNukes
09-16-2017 3:21 PM


Re: Module 4 is also about diet
If you need a biblical standard for meats it should be noted that God rescinded the ancient dietary laws when the gospel went out to the Gentiles, which of course He wouldn't have done if it was about health. So obviously it wasn't.

Do you honestly not see the gaping hole in this argument?

I said I don't, and asked if you'd show it to me. I'm asking again. Thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by NoNukes, posted 09-16-2017 3:21 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by NoNukes, posted 09-18-2017 10:23 PM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10130
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 155 of 316 (820303)
09-18-2017 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Faith
09-18-2017 8:32 PM


Re: Module 4 is also about diet
I said I don't, and asked if you'd show it to me. I'm asking again. Thanks.

I asked the question because I wanted the answer and you gave it. I don't intend to comment further on the subject. In the end, it is a side issue on which I don't want to start a pointless debate.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Faith, posted 09-18-2017 8:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 09-19-2017 2:03 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26797
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 156 of 316 (820306)
09-19-2017 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by NoNukes
09-18-2017 10:23 PM


Re: Module 4 is also about diet
You said there is an obvious hole in it. Since I don't see a hole shouldn't you say what you meant? I'd really like to know. I think what I said makes sense but if it doesn't please explain.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by NoNukes, posted 09-18-2017 10:23 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26797
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 157 of 316 (820307)
09-19-2017 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by NoNukes
09-18-2017 8:05 PM


There's enough here to show a need for some real research
The anecdotes I recently posted get into a fair amount of detail about what was tried, what worked and didn't work. There's always the possibility of faulty observation, something left out, something exaggerated, but I think these reports are particularly interesting because of the trial and error descriptions by people who started out knowing pretty much nothing about alternative treatments.

And of course I was particularly interested to see that not much worked except carrot juice, and even that didn't work until enough of it was used, though different amounts do seem to work for different people or different cancers or different circumstances. I regard these as a sort of research in themselves, and both Cameron and Cole who described their experiences want to see some real research done on this.

I would have expected some positive results from all the other dietary recommendations that were tried and was surprised that only carrot juice scored in the end.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by NoNukes, posted 09-18-2017 8:05 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1858
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


(3)
Message 158 of 316 (820309)
09-19-2017 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
09-19-2017 2:34 AM


Re: There's enough here to show a need for some real research
The plural of anecdote is not data.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 09-19-2017 2:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-20-2017 5:54 PM Pressie has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10130
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 159 of 316 (820359)
09-19-2017 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
09-18-2017 8:08 PM


Did you actually READ any of the testimonials?

You don't get it. Nobody gives a crap how many testimonies you link to. Nor should they...

quote:

Samuel Parris, the Salem minister, would have known every detail of the Goodwin family’s trials from Mather’s much reprinted “Memorable Providences.” The book included the pages Martha wildly ridiculed. The “agitations, writhings, tumblings, tossings, wallowings, foamings” in the parsonage were the same, only more acute. The girls cried that they were being stabbed with fine needles. Their skin burned. One disappeared halfway down a well. Their shrieks could be heard from a distance.

Through February, Parris fasted and prayed. He consulted with fellow-clergymen. With cider and cakes, he and his wife entertained the well-wishers who crowded their home. They prayed ardently, gooseflesh rising on their arms. They sang Psalms. But when the minister had had enough of the “odd postures and antic gestures,” the deranged speeches, when it became clear that Scripture would not relieve the girls’ preternatural symptoms, Parris called in the doctors.
In 1692, a basic medical kit looked little different from an ancient Greek one, consisting as it did of beetle’s blood, fox lung, and dried dolphin heart. In plasters or powders, snails figured in many remedies. Salem village had one practicing physician that winter. He owned nine medical texts; he could likely read but not write. His surgical arsenal consisted of lances, razors, and saws. The doctor who had examined a seizing Groton girl a generation earlier initially diagnosed a stomach disorder. On a second visit, he refused to administer to her further. The distemper was diabolical in origin.

Whoever examined Abigail and Betty arrived at the same conclusion. “The evil hand” came as no surprise; the supernatural explanation was already the one on the street. The diagnosis likely terrified the girls, whose symptoms deteriorated. It may have gratified Reverend Parris. Witchcraft was portentous, a Puritan favorite. Never before had it broken out in a parsonage. The Devil’s appearance was nearly a badge of honor, further proof that New Englanders were the chosen people. No wonder Massachusetts was troubled by witches, Cotton Mather exulted: “Where will the Devil show most malice but where he is hated, and hateth most?” The New England ministry had long been on the lookout for the apocalypse, imminent since the sixteen-fifties. The Book of Revelation predicted that the Devil would descend accompanied by “infernal fiends.” If they were about, God could not be far behind.

Soon the twelve-year-old daughter of a close friend of Parris’s began to shudder and choke. So did the village doctor’s teen-age niece. A creature had followed her home from an errand, through the snow; she now realized that it had not been a wolf at all. The girls named names. They could see the culprits clearly. Not one but three witches were loose in Salem.


Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 09-18-2017 8:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1825
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 160 of 316 (820374)
09-19-2017 5:05 PM


eye-witness testimony
Neil Degrasse Tyson on jury duty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVTzuIe-5AU

and also on math innumerancy....


- xongsmith, 5.7d

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by ringo, posted 09-20-2017 3:43 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14015
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 161 of 316 (820439)
09-20-2017 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by xongsmith
09-19-2017 5:05 PM


Re: eye-witness testimony
xongsmith writes:

and also on math innumerancy....


Innumeracy + necromancy?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by xongsmith, posted 09-19-2017 5:05 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1761
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 162 of 316 (820446)
09-20-2017 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Pressie
09-19-2017 6:26 AM


Re: There's enough here to show a need for some real research
The plural of anecdote is not data.

The ancient Egyptians used to rub moldy bread on open wounds. Sometimes it worked. Had they known how to do a controlled study they might have discovered why it worked. The fact that they didn't do those studies does not change the fact that sometimes it worked.

Today there are numerous reports of cannabis oil eliminating epileptic seizures without much controlled study data to support those claims. If you had an epileptic child would you not try that remedy? If you observed it working would that still be an anecdote?

If I were diagnosed with cancer today would it be unwise to delay chemotherapy for 2 months while I drank a shitload of carrot juice?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Pressie, posted 09-19-2017 6:26 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by NoNukes, posted 09-20-2017 6:30 PM ProtoTypical has responded
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10130
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 163 of 316 (820448)
09-20-2017 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by ProtoTypical
09-20-2017 5:54 PM


Re: There's enough here to show a need for some real research
Had they known how to do a controlled study they might have discovered why it worked.

You are discussing events that occurred well before the creation of either the scientific method or medical studies. Perhaps what constitutes the best decision-making process might be a bit different now?

If I were diagnosed with cancer today would it be unwise to delay chemotherapy for 2 months while I drank a shitload of carrot juice?

Quite possibly, but the right answer depends on the type of cancer and your diagnosis/prognosis right?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-20-2017 5:54 PM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-20-2017 8:43 PM NoNukes has responded

    
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1761
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 164 of 316 (820450)
09-20-2017 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by NoNukes
09-20-2017 6:30 PM


Re: There's enough here to show a need for some real research
You are discussing events that occurred well before the creation of either the scientific method or medical studies. Perhaps what constitutes the best decision-making process might be a bit different now?

For sure it is but I meant to highlight the value of observation. It is the outright discounting of personal observation that bothers me.

I appreciate that our personal assessments are often wrong but the they are also often correct.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by NoNukes, posted 09-20-2017 6:30 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by NoNukes, posted 09-20-2017 9:23 PM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10130
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 165 of 316 (820451)
09-20-2017 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by ProtoTypical
09-20-2017 8:43 PM


Re: There's enough here to show a need for some real research
It is the outright discounting of personal observation that bothers me.

Personal observation of a cancer cure by non-medically trained people should be discounted heavily. It should not be relied upon to the extent that it delays or substitutes consulting a real doctor.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-20-2017 8:43 PM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

    
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