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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6055
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 512 of 613 (842095)
10-26-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 510 by Percy
10-26-2018 12:19 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

You have fantasies about yourself that revolve around guns.

Would you like to come down and go to the firing range with me?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by Percy, posted 10-26-2018 12:19 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Percy, posted 10-26-2018 3:20 PM ICANT has responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 216
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 513 of 613 (842097)
10-26-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by ICANT
10-24-2018 3:26 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT:

My mind is conditioned that when I would see a weapon of any kind that is being positioned to bring harm to me or anyone around me reflexes would take over without even thinking as my actions would be automatic. I know you don't understand that but I can't help you there.

Also ICANT:

I doubt that as my memory is getting slow and weak, that is what happens when you get old.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by ICANT, posted 10-24-2018 3:26 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by ICANT, posted 10-28-2018 1:55 PM Aussie has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 514 of 613 (842100)
10-26-2018 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 509 by ICANT
10-26-2018 12:14 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Percy writes:

ICANT writes:

I never had to shoot at a squirrel more than twice with my pistol.

More absurd bragging. So what happens after that first shot misses? Does the squirrel just sit there instead of turning into a blur, waiting for the second shot?

If I missed him with the first shot it was because he was running or jumping from one tree to another.

Yes, we understand the fantasy. Your tale is that you've never had to fire more than twice at a squirrel with your pistol. If you missed a running or jumping squirrel on the first shot then you've never failed to get him on the second, even though (especially after the sound of the first shot) the squirrel is still running or jumping. We'll add this to your fantasy list.

Percy writes:

That's absurd, too. Why do you think people are going to believe your silly stories? it's impossible that an area within range of your hammock would sustain that many squirrels over a period of weeks.

You sure do know a lot especially since you don't have any facts.

But I do have facts. I looked up gray squirrels before I wrote that reply. In the woods there are about 1 to 5 squirrels per acre, they have a range of several acres, and they don't wander more than a couple hundred yards from home in any one season. After several weeks of you shooting squirrels from your hammock 4 or 5 days a week there aren't going to be any left near enough to shoot.

I don't expect you to come clean and tell the truth, that's just not your habit, but don't expect the rest of us to believe your tall tales.

So yes there was plenty of woods to produce all the squirrels we could eat.

I'm sure there were, but not from your hammock.

Percy writes:

So any crime is one crime too many, but if they pass a law you don't like you'll break it and commit a crime. Inconsistent much?

I did not say any law. I said if you passed a law that would take away my constitutional right to bear my arms I would probably break that law. That would go for any other law that that infringed upon my constitutional rights.

Yes, we understand. If you believe a law is unconstitutional, you feel you have the right to break it.

Percy writes:

Here's a link to the original paper which explains the methodology and inherent accuracy problems in great detail: Gun Ownership in the United States: Measurement Issues and Trends, see the sections on Data Sources and Measurement Issues. Getting into such detail would make this post far too long, but to mention just one issue they describe, you'll get different answers depending upon whether the question specifically excludes air rifles, pellet guns, starter pistols, and firearms that are antiques or no longer operable.

As I said they either use information received by asking questions over a phone or going door to door.

No, neither phone (usually) or door to door. Still didn't read the methodology, did you. Here's the link to the paper again: Gun Ownership in the United States: Measurement Issues and Trends. Quoting:

quote:
Interviews are primarily in-person and are conducted in English and since 2006, also in Spanish. For full details on the GSS see Smith, Marsden, Hout, and Kim, 2013 and the website at http://www3.norc.org/GSS+Website.

The paper describes other data it also draws upon. In order for a sample to be valid it must be random, and this means it can't be cold phone calls or door-to-door.

And yes a lot of people would be willing to tell you they had an air gun that is used for killing rodents. But when asked about a shotgun or rifle they would not admit to owning one.

I can't wait to hear why you think a lot of people would be unwilling to admit they own a shotgun or rifle. How about handguns? Would they be unwilling to admit they own those, too? If so, is it for the same reasons?

But I don't know of any phone poll or door to door poll that covered every household in the US. A certain number of households are polled then an average reached then applied to all households. I did polls for Gallup when I was in college so I do know how they work.

Your ignorance about polling, despite your work for Gallup, is coming across clearly. If you really worked for Gallup and understood what you were doing then you would know that polls never "cover every household in the US." That's ridiculous.

Did you know a sample size of around 1700 provides a confidence factor of about 95%, no matter the population size, even millions and billions? The only requirement for this to hold true is that the sample selection process is random.

Ignorance drives a lot of wrong ideas.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2018 12:14 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by ICANT, posted 10-28-2018 4:53 PM Percy has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1739
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 515 of 613 (842101)
10-26-2018 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Percy
10-26-2018 12:10 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
I thought Hyroglyphx had just said hunting rifles are of much smaller caliber than assault rifles, but reading it again I think he meant the opposite.

Hunting rifles come in many flavors, depending on what you're hunting. But as I said before anything that can reliably take down a game animal is gonna just do fine on a human. In fact .223 remington/5.56 NATO is banned in some states for use against deer because it historically hasn't been a reliable killer yet it is the main rifle cartridge in western militaries.

How many times have I said I'm fine with hunting?

I haven't counted but some of your arguments seem to be saying the opposite, like "the ban large calibers and fast rounds" line. You're kind of taking the position we see with creationists in that you don't know some basic facts about the subject, but you're against it anyways.

I'm sure they are. What matters is their skill.

And who says they aren't skillful? is there a rash of hunters in your area with bad marksmanship skills? You seem to view every gun owner as a raving lunatic just ready to spray and pray at anything that crosses their path (admittedly ICANT is not providing an opposing example).

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Percy, posted 10-26-2018 12:10 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 519 by Percy, posted 10-27-2018 3:53 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 516 of 613 (842105)
10-26-2018 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by ICANT
10-26-2018 12:59 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Percy writes:

Why are you asking me? What do they teach you in firearm education classes?

That a weapon that is not accessible in less than a second can cost you your life.

No, ICANT, they do not teach that in firearm education class. They teach, "Store firearms and ammunition separately in locked compartments and beyond the reach of children." You're describing what paranoid firearm wingnuts teach.

If you have to open a safe to get your weapon then go in a different room and open another safe to get the bullets then load the gun what do you think an intruder would be doing all that time. You think he would be sitting in your recliner waiting for you to get prepared to defend yourself?

Under those circumstances I would agree with you that it would be more dangerous to have a gun in the house than not having a gun in the house.

It doesn't matter what addled conclusions your paranoid brain has reached, statistics say otherwise. Your gun is more likely to be used against you, friends or family than against a criminal. That's because, as I've explained before, being attacked by a criminal is a rare and brief event, while a gun in the house is there every minute of every day all year long.

Percy writes:

I think this'll be the third or fourth time I've said that I don't have strong feelings about what caliber rifle is used for hunting. Use whatever caliber rifle makes sense for what you're hunting. Just make sure it's a hunting rifle, not an assault rifle.

What do you classify as an assault rifle?

I'm no expert, but I did post a couple images recently that make clear the difference between a hunting rifle and an assault rifle:

Notice to be classified as an assault rifle it has to be capable of firing automatically. Meaning you pull the trigger and hold it in that position and the rifle will empty the magazine or if it is belt fed fire until you release the trigger loose.

An AR15 is not an assault weapon. It is against the law to manufacture and sell a fully automatic weapon for civilian use in the US.

If you want to be technical about it, sure, but in everyday speech people refer to semi-automatics as assault weapons or assault style weapons. But what does it matter what they're called? What matters is how dangerously inappropriate they are for people to own.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2018 12:59 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 518 by Capt Stormfield, posted 10-27-2018 12:20 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 529 by ICANT, posted 10-28-2018 3:39 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 517 of 613 (842106)
10-26-2018 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 512 by ICANT
10-26-2018 1:03 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Percy writes:

You have fantasies about yourself that revolve around guns.

Would you like to come down and go to the firing range with me?

I've been very clear that I consider you a dangerous and deluded menace - why would you ask such a question?

Will you take a firearms safety course and do what they say, including locking up your firearms?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by ICANT, posted 10-26-2018 1:03 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by ICANT, posted 10-28-2018 2:54 PM Percy has responded

    
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 389
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 518 of 613 (842151)
10-27-2018 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by Percy
10-26-2018 3:14 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Your images of the two semi-automatic rifles raise an interesting concept. While those rifles could have identical performance in terms of rounds/minute, discussions based on stats alone (setting aside magazine size) ignore one thing: The asshole factor. The sort of weapon popularly described as an assault rifle is essentially a toy, a fashion statement, an aesthetic statement. To the overgrown, dysfunctional children that fester at the heart of gun culture, it's about fantasy. The look, the feel, the pop cultural associations of those guns stoke a dangerous sort of Walter Mitty fantasy life.

It doesn't take much observational skill to notice that children's behavior changes to mirror the toys they are given. This behavior does not end with physical childhood. I think it is entirely rational to think that the design and appearance of "assault" rifles play into the fantasies of the already diseased minds of some of their owners.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Percy, posted 10-26-2018 3:14 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 519 of 613 (842183)
10-27-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by DrJones*
10-26-2018 2:30 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
DrJones* writes:

How many times have I said I'm fine with hunting?

I haven't counted but some of your arguments seem to be saying the opposite, like "the ban large calibers and fast rounds" line.

You're not too far off from my general sentiments. I don't think people should own dangerous weapons, which includes handguns, semi-automatics and automatics. Legitimate hunting rifles should be about it, and that shouldn't include semi-automatic weapons.

You're kind of taking the position we see with creationists in that you don't know some basic facts about the subject, but you're against it anyways.

Is it necessary to know the detailed workings of all the various firearms to understand the statistics? I think I know more than enough of the basic facts of how dangerous firearms are. The real problem is that there's this mythology around firearms that training and practice render them safe in the hands of people. This is not true. Firearms are never safe in the hands of people.

Who says the hunters who use these rounds aren't trying to be accurate?

I'm sure they are. What matters is their skill.

And who says they aren't skillful?

Who says they *are* skillful? Obviously not all people are equally skilled, and what matters is skill. For the unskilled hunter a semi-automatic weapon is a godsend. It supposedly isn't deadly enough (more about that in a minute), but they can just fire off one shot after another in the direction of the target. And the more shots fired the more fun, right? (just being sarcastic)

I don't actually believe that the lower caliber of semi-automatics renders them inappropriate for hunting. When they're used in mass shootings they are incredibly capable of causing massive injury and death. The Las Vegas shooter killed 58, and many of the injuries of the 851 people he injured were very debilitating. The Parkland shooter killed an incredibly high percentage of the people he fired at, and the same for the Sandy Hook and Orlando nightclub shooters. A white tailed deer weighs about the same as a person. Given how easily semi-automatics kill and maim people, I think they should make fine hunting weapons.

Poking around on the Internet reveals that the hunting community in general views those who hunt with semi-automatics unfavorably.

But the point I'm making, and you seem to agree but only because of the lower caliber, is that semi-automatics are not appropriate hunting weapons. My reason is that these weapons are simply too dangerous to be possessed by people.

Is there a rash of hunters in your area with bad marksmanship skills? You seem to view every gun owner as a raving lunatic just ready to spray and pray at anything that crosses their path...

No, that isn't it, but if you're sensing that I have a low view of hunters then you are correct, and this is because I think killing animals for sport is horrible. Killing them because otherwise you wouldn't eat is okay.

I don't know how many hunters out there are yahoos, but in the US and Canada around a thousand people are injured and 75 killed by hunters each year. Guns are too dangerous to be available to people anywhere under ordinary circumstances.

(admittedly ICANT is not providing an opposing example).

But it isn't just ICANT. Jar is out there getting his jollies strapping a firearm to his hip and walking around in public. He doesn't care that open carry people are more often targeted than concealed carry. He doesn't care that guns make him a danger to himself and all around him. He just likes the way it makes him feel and isn't willing to give that up.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by DrJones*, posted 10-26-2018 2:30 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by DrJones*, posted 10-27-2018 5:31 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 520 of 613 (842189)
10-27-2018 4:16 PM


Mass Shooting in Pittsburgh
There has been a mass shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh about a mile east of Carnegie Mellon University in the Squirrel Hill area of the city. At present the toll stands at 11 killed and 6 wounded. The perpetrator is currently thought to have been armed with an AR-15 style rifle and multiple handguns. Sources:


This reinforces the point I have been recently making. Weapons that can quickly fire many shots, such as handguns and semi-automatic rifles, are too dangerous to be in the hands of people.

I'm sure most people's thoughts and prayers go out to the people of Pittsburgh. There are other people out there who feel differently, like Trump who blames the synagogue for not having an armed guard inside (Trump laments Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, then suggests victims should have protected themselves). I guess when we get shot it's our own damn fault.

The NRA is organizing a Saturday conference call to plan how to manage their message about this latest mass shooting (I made this last part up, but I bet it's true).

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by Phat, posted 10-27-2018 4:16 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 521 of 613 (842190)
10-27-2018 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Percy
10-27-2018 4:16 PM


Re: Mass Shooting in Pittsburgh
OMG! Another one! There is no shortage of crazy people! Percy, you might be right....guns are the common denominator in all of this! I wouldn't take them away from the police just yet, however.
Deadly Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooting Investigated As Hate Crime; Suspect In Custody

quote:
Pittsburgh Public Safety Director Wendell Hissrich told reporters that there were multiple fatalities, but he would not say how many people are dead.

He did say there were at least six injured, including four police officers. The police officers' injuries are not life-threatening; others have injuries that are critical and serious in nature.

Hissrich said a suspect is in custody and was taken to the hospital.

His voice breaking, Hissrich said it was a "very horrific crime scene."



Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Percy, posted 10-27-2018 4:16 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1739
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 522 of 613 (842204)
10-27-2018 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by Percy
10-27-2018 3:53 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
It supposedly isn't deadly enough (more about that in a minute), but they can just fire off one shot after another in the direction of the target.

once you fire off your shot the animal starts running. They don't just stand around, waiting to be hit.

I don't actually believe that the lower caliber of semi-automatics renders them inappropriate for hunting.

See here is an example of why i said you don't know basic facts, semi-autos aren't necessarily small caliber. Semi-automatic merely describes the action of the firearm, nothing more about it. You can get semi autos chambered in .22LR all the way up to .50BMG.


these are both semi-auto firearms.

Firearms are never safe in the hands of people

Guns aren't toys, but they're not dangerous vipers just itching to be set free either. They're as dangerous as the person that uses them. None of my guns have ever thrown off their shackles, broken out of my safes, broken into my ammo storage, loaded themselves and then run off into the night to cause mayhem.

Edited by DrJones*, : edit: hit submit too soon.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Percy, posted 10-27-2018 3:53 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 524 by Percy, posted 10-28-2018 11:16 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 523 of 613 (842228)
10-28-2018 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 503 by jar
10-26-2018 9:04 AM


Lou Alessi
Glad to see you back at EvC. I was worried that you had health problems. Out of curiosity, who is "Lou"?

Add By Edit: OK Now I know. Lou Alessi


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by jar, posted 10-26-2018 9:04 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 524 of 613 (842230)
10-28-2018 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by DrJones*
10-27-2018 5:31 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
DrJones* writes:

It supposedly isn't deadly enough (more about that in a minute), but they can just fire off one shot after another in the direction of the target.

Once you fire off your shot the animal starts running. They don't just stand around, waiting to be hit.

Yes, of course, but again, where's the skill? Those with the least skill are most likely to miss and cause the animal to bolt, introducing the need to squeeze off many shots quickly, meaning a semi-automatic.

I don't actually believe that the lower caliber of semi-automatics renders them inappropriate for hunting.

See here is an example of why i said you don't know basic facts, semi-autos aren't necessarily small caliber. Semi-automatic merely describes the action of the firearm, nothing more about it. You can get semi autos chambered in .22LR all the way up to .50BMG.

I do not write in a vacuum. Before I posted yesterday I read several articles about hunting with semi-automatics, and they all mentioned the issue of lower caliber, saying that they were appropriate for larger game than most people think. None happened to mention chambering to larger calibers, but looking it up now I found articles about it.

You already know I'm not a hunter and am not remotely interested in hunting. You'll have no trouble finding things I do not know about hunting. But this thread is not about hunting, and I've said a number of times that I'm not opposed to hunting as long as it's with weapons that can't be used for mass shootings. One of your images is of the Ruger 10/22 carbine, and I see that it is a semi-automatic that can, with the right magazine, fire 25 rounds in rapid succession, 3-4 rounds per second. This is an inappropriate hunting rifle because it can be used for mass murder (video is very short):

Your other image was of a Barrett Model 82A1 Black .50 BMG 29-inch 10Rds. This gun can be fired at about 2 rounds per second, and it, too, is inappropriate for hunting (video is very short):

Firearms are never safe in the hands of people

Guns aren't toys, but they're not dangerous vipers just itching to be set free either.

Guns aren't toys? Are you kidding me? Did you see the expressions on the faces of the men in those videos? They were happy, almost gleeful. To guys like these, which is most guys, these are their toys. They're not out there in the woods or the firing range all grim and determined as they handle these instruments of death. They're having fun.

That's what's wrong with the gun culture. There's all this lip service about training and safety, but in the end it's just a way for guys to have fun. If it weren't fun then what would be the point? If it weren't fun, thrilling even, then why would it attract so many people?

They're as dangerous as the person that uses them.

This is true, and in our gun culture too many people who use them are dangerous.

None of my guns have ever thrown off their shackles, broken out of my safes, broken into my ammo storage, loaded themselves and then run off into the night to cause mayhem.

I'm glad you keep your guns locked up, but you can't escape the statistics. That you have guns in your home increases the danger to you, family and friends.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by DrJones*, posted 10-27-2018 5:31 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6055
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 525 of 613 (842240)
10-28-2018 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by Aussie
10-26-2018 2:05 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Aussie,

Aussie just because I am a few hundredths of a second slower now than I was 20 years ago does not mean it don't work. It is just a few hundredths of a second slower. The end result is the same. My hand and my eye is just as good as they were 50 years ago.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Aussie, posted 10-26-2018 2:05 PM Aussie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 528 by Percy, posted 10-28-2018 3:32 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6055
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 526 of 613 (842248)
10-28-2018 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by Percy
10-26-2018 3:20 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy

Percy writes:

Will you take a firearms safety course and do what they say, including locking up your firearms?

Why would I want to take a safety course in firearms?

I have taken many defensive courses in firearms.

As I have said before a gun for defensive reason is useless in a safe and unloaded. If you can't access it within one second you will probably die if someone wants to kill you.

I have a shotgun that has only been unloaded when being cleaned since 1954. It has never been locked up in a safe. It stays in reach from the front door. Although you would not be able to see it and would not know it was there unless I showed you where it was. But it is accessible in one second if I am looking out the peep hole.

This gun has never killed anything that was not aided by a human.

So the gun is not what is dangerous. The person holding the gun is the problem. A gun can be used as a tool or in the hands of a morally corrupt person filled with hate it can bring much devastation and carnage. The gun is just the tool they choose. There are tools that would bring about greater devastation and carnage if used properly.

You keep wanting to blame the gun but without a human having that gun in their hand it will never hurt anyone whether it is loaded or empty locked up or not. As I said the gun is not the problem.

Humans are the Problem

I am sure my solution for the problem would be much different than yours. You want to make guns un-accessible to law abiding citizens. Which would have no effect on crooks or people who wanted to kill a bunch of people.

I say the moral compass of mankind needs to be changed which would take a miracle. One that only God can perform. But He has to have the corporation of mankind to accomplish such a feat.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Percy, posted 10-26-2018 3:20 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 10-28-2018 3:15 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 530 by Percy, posted 10-28-2018 4:28 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
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