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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 662 (828563)
02-21-2018 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Percy
02-21-2018 7:55 AM


Re: Psychiatrist Agrees Mass Murderers Can't Be Pre-Detected
Bottom line: Republican claims about beefing up the mental health care system is a smokescreen for doing nothing about guns.

I would actually tolerate those claims if the sentiment expressed was followed up by actually beefing up the mental health care system. But what credibility do the Republicans have on health care of any kind? The only issue that seems to motivate our Republicans in Congress is ensuring that the mentally ill are not separated from firearms before they kill someone.

If "smokescreen" is actually a euphemism for saying meaningless deflecting drivel while doing the will of the gun manufacturing lobby while reserving your own ring in Dante's Inferno, then I totally agree with you. "Smoke" is probably far too mild.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 7:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 662 (828591)
02-21-2018 1:22 PM


Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
Some right winger's do not believe that the high school students are sincere in their reaction to their friends being killed and are pushing a conspiracy theory that the kids are being used by left-wing radicals.

Among those pushing this "theory" is Former Congress Jack Kingston from Georgia who believes that Soros has riled up these kids. In an interview with CNN, Kingston expresses skepticism that 17 and 18-year-old teens are capable of chartering a bus to a scheduled meeting or that their peers in other states are capable of showing solidarity and scheduling protests of their own.

Kingston on Twitter:

https://thinkprogress.org/...-parkland-massacre-a6edb79aa801

quote:
O really? “Students” are planning a nationwide rally? Not left wing gun control activists using 17yr kids in the wake of a horrible tragedy?

During the CNN interview, Kingston claimed that these kids are being hijacked by Soros, Antifa, and the DNC. He doubts that the kids have "the money for the bus" to take a trip to watch the legislature as they did yesterday. (I remember as a teen playing hooky from school one day and taking a trip to the Georgia capital house. The round trip cost about the same as my lunch money. Yeah, I was a nerd...)

Apparently, wing-nut politicians cannot believe in a protest that is not orchestrated at a grassroots level, because that is not the way they would do it.

Here are some even more outlandish wingnut theories.

https://www.cnn.com/...lorida-lawmaker-aide-fired/index.html

quote:
An aide to Florida state Rep. Shawn Harrison (R) on Tuesday dismissed a pair of outspoken Parkland students as attention-seeking “actors.”

“Both kids in the picture are not students here but actors that travel to various crisis when they happen,” the unnamed aide told Tampa Bay Times reporter Alex Leary.


The aide (Benjamin Kelly) was fired after making these comments, here is his explanation for those preposterous comments.

quote:
Kelly posted about it on a Twitter account that is no longer available to the public: "I've been terminated from the State House. I made a mistake whereas I tried to inform a reporter of information relating to his story regarding a school shooting. This was not my responsibility. I meant no disrespect to the students or parents of Parkland.

Harrison and the Florida House speaker have terminated Kelly's employment and have denounced his comments in very strong terms.

A little more wingnut conspiracy stuff before I go back to writing some code...

quote:
Hogg, who has been interviewed numerous times by national networks, has been a particular target of critics as the students' gun-control efforts have gained traction. He has proved to be cool in stressful situations, even interviewing fellow students with his phone during the shooting as the gunman roamed the halls.

"I'm not a crisis actor," Hogg told CNN's Anderson Cooper on AC360. "I'm someone who had to witness this and live through this, and I continue to be having to do that.

"I'm not acting on anybody's behalf," he said.

Conspiracy theorists, however, see a plot afoot in the fact that Hogg's father has retired from the FBI, which has come under attack by pro-Trump outlets for its role in the Russia investigation.


And from Info Wars, and the winger Alex Jones...

quote:
Infowars, which is headed by conspiracy king Alex Jones and has claimed the Sandy Hook massacre was staged, notes that Hogg has become an "overnight celebrity." Infowars quotes a former Navy SEAL as saying it is "very significant" that Hogg's father once worked for the FBI, since the bureau, he says, has been hiring "SJWs" for years — a reference to "Social Justice Warriors."

For what it is worth, Hogg is very polished. However, he comes by that polish very honestly. Hogg is news director of the school TV station. He should be applauded for the abilities he has gained and not denigrated for them.

Unfortunately, EvC's own wingnuts don't post here very often anymore, so we don't get often get to hear them bashing regular news outlet and reminding us that their "alternative sources" are the only truthful ones. That's right, the same sources that let us know that the Sandy Hook massacre was a false flag operation and that Hilary was running a child sex club out of a DC pizzeria are the only sources we should trust.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Taq, posted 02-21-2018 4:24 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 4:32 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 6:26 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7632
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 48 of 662 (828615)
02-21-2018 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by NoNukes
02-21-2018 1:22 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
NoNukes writes:

Some right winger's do not believe that the high school students are sincere in their reaction to their friends being killed and are pushing a conspiracy theory that the kids are being used by left-wing radicals.

When you can't address the message you attack the messenger.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2018 1:22 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30252
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 49 of 662 (828616)
02-21-2018 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by NoNukes
02-21-2018 1:22 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
We who think gun control is not the right response to these shootings naturally have a question why that is the solution proposed by the students. Could be leftist interference, no reason why that's not a possibility.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2018 1:22 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 6:32 PM Faith has responded
 Message 54 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 7:16 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2018 9:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1561
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 50 of 662 (828618)
02-21-2018 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
02-16-2018 6:04 AM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
Remember Israel where even schoolteachers may be carrying rifles slung over their shoulders. Their political situation makes that safer than gun-free zones for sure, and by now with all these crazies shooting up American schools it ought to be recognized that something similar is the case here too.

Israel has very strict gun laws. There is about one legally owned firearm for every 50 Israelis. There is about one legally owned firearm for every American. To get a gun licence in Israel, you have to need it for your employment; be an officer of above a certain grade in the Israeli military, or live in a West Bank settlement. Even then you have to go through a mental and physical exam; a background check by the Public Security Ministry, and pass a competence exam.

It's easier to get a gun here than in Israel; though even here you have to demonstrate a clean criminal record and pass a competency exam. In some parts of the US it's perfectly legal to sell rifles to children.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 02-16-2018 6:04 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 5:10 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30252
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 51 of 662 (828629)
02-21-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by caffeine
02-21-2018 4:34 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
Actually Israel's system does sound reasonable.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by caffeine, posted 02-21-2018 4:34 PM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Modulous, posted 02-21-2018 11:15 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18004
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 52 of 662 (828639)
02-21-2018 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by NoNukes
02-21-2018 1:22 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
NoNukes writes:

Among those pushing this "theory" is Former Congress Jack Kingston from Georgia who believes that Soros has riled up these kids. In an interview with CNN, Kingston expresses skepticism that 17 and 18-year-old teens are capable of chartering a bus to a scheduled meeting or that their peers in other states are capable of showing solidarity and scheduling protests of their own.

Just to cast further ridicule on this, at age 14 me and a friend were already taking the train from New Jersey into New York City to buy firecrackers for resale. By age 16 I was taking buses with the chess club to tournaments in New York City, Atlantic City, Philadelphia and Baltimore where we found our own hotel arrangements and somehow managed to even eat. By age 17 I was driving all over, including as far south as Virginia. And by normal teenage standards I was by no means adventurous. Wherever does Mr. Kingston come by such colossal naiveté?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2018 1:22 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18004
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(5)
Message 53 of 662 (828641)
02-21-2018 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
02-21-2018 4:32 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
Faith writes:

We who think gun control is not the right response to these shootings naturally have a question why that is the solution proposed by the students. Could be leftist interference, no reason why that's not a possibility.

We who think gun control is the right response to mass shootings (especially for what are in reality weapons of war) naturally question why that solution is not obvious to everyone. Could be rightist brainwashing, no reason why that's not a possibility.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 4:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 7:51 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18004
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 54 of 662 (828643)
02-21-2018 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
02-21-2018 4:32 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
The attacks on the Douglas High students are reprehensible. From the Washington Post editorial page: The right-wing sliming of Douglas High students can’t be ignored. It’s too disgusting for that. Short excerpts:

quote:
When people act like cretins, should they be ignored? Does talking about their misdeeds merely give them oxygen?

Maybe so. But the sliming — there is no other word for it — of the survivors of last week’s Florida high school massacre is beyond the pale.

Here is the often-appalling pundit Dinesh D’Souza, outright mocking the students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, after they showed their disappointment in a state legislature vote on assault weapons on Tuesday: “Worst news since their parents told them to get summer jobs.”

Recall for a moment: These are teenagers whose friends were brutally murdered a week ago.
...
Legitimate disagreement over policy issues is one thing. Lies, conspiracy theories and insults are quite another.


--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 4:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30252
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 55 of 662 (828644)
02-21-2018 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Percy
02-21-2018 6:32 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
I think it's reprehensible that gun control becomes this huge leftist cause every time there is a shooting like this, using an emotional situation to push their politics and drown out the other side.. I'm actually for more gun control but this is the wrong way to get it, and when you have teenagers supporting the standard leftwing position I don't trust it anyway.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 02-21-2018 6:32 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by DrJones*, posted 02-21-2018 8:49 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 57 by Rrhain, posted 02-21-2018 8:59 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 63 by Percy, posted 02-22-2018 10:17 AM Faith has responded
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1770
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 56 of 662 (828645)
02-21-2018 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
02-21-2018 7:51 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
I think it's reprehensible that gun control becomes this huge leftist cause every time there is a shooting like this,

How much time needs to pass between a mass shooting and a conversation about gun control Faith? Is it far enough from Sandy Hook to talk about it? From Orlando? From Vegas?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 7:51 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(2)
Message 57 of 662 (828646)
02-21-2018 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
02-21-2018 7:51 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
Faith writes:

quote:
I think it's reprehensible that gun control becomes this huge leftist cause every time there is a shooting like this

Huh? Gun control is a massively bipartisan issue. From whence cometh this idea that it's "leftist"? Remember, Faith, you support what the students are asking for.

quote:
using an emotional situation to push their politics and drown out the other side..

Huh? As opposed to using the emotional situation to push the other sides politics and drown out those that want what you want? Remember, Faith, you support what the students are asking for.

quote:
I'm actually for more gun control but this is the wrong way to get it,

Why?

Be specific.

quote:
and when you have teenagers supporting the standard leftwing position I don't trust it anyway.

Why? Don't you think they, as the ones who have grown up having to deal with school shootings all their lives, who now have "active shooter drills" as a normal part of their lives, have something to say on the subject?

Is everybody who disagrees with you "leftist"?

"It's too soon," right?

Well, is it too soon after Sandy Hook to talk about it? Let's talk about the Sandy Hook situation. It's been five years. Surely enough time has passed to allow us to talk about it without people accusing others of "using the emotional situation to push their politics and drown out the other side," right?

There's a school shooting in this country at the rate of once a week. And there's a mass shooting in general (four or more people injured or killed) every other day in the US. At what point has enough time passed for you to no longer accuse others of "using the emotional situation to push their politics and drown out the other side"?

Remember, Faith: You support what the students are asking for. Is the fear of being seen as "liberal" so overwhelming that you would rather children die than do something that a "liberal" would agree with?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 7:51 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16073
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(5)
Message 58 of 662 (828647)
02-21-2018 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
02-21-2018 4:32 PM


Re: Wingnut's attack Florida High School Students
We who think gun control is not the right response to these shootings naturally have a question why that is the solution proposed by the students.

The reason why normal people disagree with the dumb things you think is because the dumb things you think are dumb.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 4:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 87 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 59 of 662 (828648)
02-21-2018 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
02-21-2018 5:10 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
Actually Israel's system does sound reasonable.

Faith, in another thread writes:

quote:
Hitler forced gun registration on the Jews and then confiscated their guns. It's the Left who would do that here.

Israel's system is more strict than just about anything left politicians have seriously proposed. It's a shame Conservatives don't typically agree with you on this point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 02-21-2018 5:10 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 02-22-2018 1:06 AM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30252
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 60 of 662 (828649)
02-22-2018 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Modulous
02-21-2018 11:15 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
I want some gun control but I may have to take it back about wanting as much as Israel has. I'd probably want more strictness about the qualifications for individuals, not just a blanket banning of guns for particular individuals.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Modulous, posted 02-21-2018 11:15 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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