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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
GDR
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 526 of 689 (841198)
10-09-2018 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by Faith
10-08-2018 11:42 AM


Re: One god or many
Faith writes:

You seem to limit your idea of the Christian life to good works, or loving your neighbor, would you say that's correct?

Not at all. It is about knowing that love is simply a gift from God and then reflecting His love into the world which of course includes my neighbour. I know, no matter how imperfectly I do it, that I'm called to a life of prayer and worship.

Faith writes:

What about love of God in your system? It's the first of the ten commandments after all.

It actually isn't the first of the 10 commandments but to the point it is that we show our love of God by loving what He stands for and we know what He stands for by knowing Jesus.

Faith writes:

Devotional writings aim to raise our affections to God Himself but I was wondering if you consider your relation to God to be much of a part of Christian life at all. It seems that you may not just because you seem so focused on love of, as you say above, the creation, enemy etc.

You are an ardent follower of some politicians. You don't know them personally but you know and believe in them by what they stand for, and even feel a relationship with them. Yes, I have had personal experiences of God in my life but that isn't really the issue. The issue is do I allow God to change my heart away from self centredness to one that is more centred on others.
Faith writes:


Which is all about doing good for others, loving others? What about prayer? How much is that part of your Christian vision? How about prayer just as communion with God because He's lovable and wants our company?

Of course prayer is important and yes I pray, primarily that I would be the person that God wants me to be. (I'm a long way from having that one answered.)

Faith writes:

Our conversations are usually about your objection to making the Bible so important, but I started thinking that you may be missing something apart from that issue, just in how you live in terms of Jesus' message rather than in terms of loving Jesus Himself personally above all else.

The Bible is extremely important. However, it is Jesus that is the Word of God according to the Bible and when we value the words in the Bible above the words of Jesus we are missing the message that the Bible has for us.

For me the focus of my Christianity is not what happens to me in the next life but what God calls me to in this life. God has given us life; he has given us various gifts; he has given us the ability to know and share love and so on. What is important in our life is how we use these gifts.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Faith, posted 10-08-2018 11:42 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 5:11 AM GDR has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29844
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 527 of 689 (841202)
10-09-2018 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by GDR
10-09-2018 2:36 AM


loving God
Thanks very much for your answer. I'm not sure I completely get what you mean.

You seem to limit your idea of the Christian life to good works, or loving your neighbor, would you say that's correct?

Not at all. It is about knowing that love is simply a gift from God and then reflecting His love into the world which of course includes my neighbour. I know, no matter how imperfectly I do it, that I'm called to a life of prayer and worship.

OK, I wouldn't have guessed you looked at it that way.

Like this?

John 4:24 writes:

God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What about love of God in your system? It's the first of the ten commandments after all.

It actually isn't the first of the 10 commandments...

Yes, you are right. I was thinking of Jesus' summary of the two tables of the Law which comprise the Ten Commandments:

Matthew 22:37-40 King James Version (KJV) writes:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

In other words Jesus sums up the two sections of the Ten Commandments as first, loving God and second, loving neighbor.

... but to the point it is that we show our love of God by loving what He stands for and we know what He stands for by knowing Jesus.

I've been thinking more along the lines of the great joy there is in the experience of loving God Himself, which sometimes happens in prayer, at least when we give a fair amount of time to it. Not so much about "showing" it as just experiencing it. Not saying you are wrong, but it is a different emphasis.

I ran across this in looking up "love of God:"

1John5:1-3 writes:

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Loving God=keeping His commandments. This is closer to what you are saying than what I'm talking about, which is more about directly experiencing God. "Be still and know that I am God."

Devotional writings aim to raise our affections to God Himself but I was wondering if you consider your relation to God to be much of a part of Christian life at all. It seems that you may not just because you seem so focused on love of, as you say above, the creation, enemy etc.

You are an ardent follower of some politicians...

I certainly wouldn't say that. Most politicians I agree with are along the lines of "the best we can do at this time," certainly not people I "ardently follow." I might agree to the idea that I ardently follow certain principles that some politicians embody better than others, emphasizing principles, not people.

You don't know them personally but you know and believe in them by what they stand for, and even feel a relationship with them.

Um, no.

Yes, I have had personal experiences of God in my life but that isn't really the issue. The issue is do I allow God to change my heart away from self centredness to one that is more centred on others.

Hm. Yes I'd agree in a way but I'd probably emphasize "being conformed to the image of Christ" which includes being less self centered for sure.

But still I'm thinking more of directly experiencing God here, and I think the closer we get to Him the more we change just by the experience. And it's a lot harder to change without such experiences.

Faith writes:

Which is all about doing good for others, loving others? What about prayer? How much is that part of your Christian vision? How about prayer just as communion with God because He's lovable and wants our company?

Of course prayer is important and yes I pray, primarily that I would be the person that God wants me to be. (I'm a long way from having that one answered.)

I pray like that too, but lately I'm trying to pray at much greater length than I normally do and pray a lot for God to strengthen all His people, to give His people repentance and reformation and revival, to save many more people, and particularly lately to bring me to experience and understand what it means to "pray in the spirit" and "pray without ceasing" and "pray through" something that I care a lot about etc. I'm no great fan of the charismatics and Pentecostals but one thing I know they have that many of the rest of the Church misses, is a spirit of deep prayer, because they believe more in the importance of things of the spirit than much of the rest of the Church does, and they write a lot about "praying through" a "prayer burden" until they know that God has answered. It's laborious work and can be lengthy from the sound of it. They may give hours or even days to it, including fasting. I've never experienced it but I want to learn to if God permits.

Faith writes:

Our conversations are usually about your objection to making the Bible so important, but I started thinking that you may be missing something apart from that issue, just in how you live in terms of Jesus' message rather than in terms of loving Jesus Himself personally above all else.

The Bible is extremely important. However, it is Jesus that is the Word of God according to the Bible and when we value the words in the Bible above the words of Jesus we are missing the message that the Bible has for us.

Well but we do not "value the words of the Bible above the words of Jesus," we believe the Bible is all His words and it is Him we follow and we read the Bible to hear from Him. The whole Bible is about Him and by Him.

For me the focus of my Christianity is not what happens to me in the next life but what God calls me to in this life.

Which to my mind is a very confused and frustrating statement. Salvation is the first step to being ABLE to live the life God calls us to. People who try to live it without being saved are doing in their flesh what can only be done in the power of God, and we can only have the power of God if we are born again. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;" said Paul in Romans 1:16. What is the "gospel of Christ" but the good news that He has died to pay for our sins, which is what gives us the power to love and serve, without which we really do not have the ability to love and serve though we may think we do.

God has given us life; he has given us various gifts; he has given us the ability to know and share love and so on. What is important in our life is how we use these gifts.

But he has only given these things to those He's saved, meaning those who DO have the new life, are born again. To slight salvation is to slight the whole life you want to live.

Or, put it this way: if people do not know they have eternal life, what is to motivate them to serve God at all? It is God's loving us that motivates us to love, and His loving us means He gives us eternal life. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life." And 1 John 4:10: "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

abe: So says we need to be loved before we can love: 1 John 4:19 "We love him because he first loved us." Which raises the question how you have the motivation to serve God with no assurance of being saved or even that He loves you. I'd apply the same logic to needing to be saved and safe from Hell to be able to live for God and obey him. This also reminds me of Martin Luther's experience. He was always confessing a huge collection of sins because he could never get free of the sense that he didn't deserve salvation or anything from God, and this led him to confess that he couldn't love God at all, but only hate him. Which changed when he found out that one is saved by faith in Christ alone.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by GDR, posted 10-09-2018 2:36 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by caffeine, posted 10-09-2018 2:49 PM Faith has responded
 Message 536 by GDR, posted 10-09-2018 8:30 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17749
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 528 of 689 (841205)
10-09-2018 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 524 by Faith
10-08-2018 6:47 PM


Re: pizza
Faith writes:

You really have no idea what you are talking about. I don't care about pizzagate, only about PaulK's attack on me personally, which is the only reason I wanted a reminder of what I'd said. I was very very very clear that I was NOT interested in reviewing the subject otherwise. Now as usual YOU are making a big deal about it anyway and making it MY problem when it is not my problem.

Ah, the Faith kneejerk know-nothing reflex response swings into action again. If you don't want to talk about Pizzagate then don't make false statements about it, because when you do then people are forced to rebut the lies. You seem to be demanding the right to lie without challenge.

As for the Rapture you know even less and like others here apparently have no interest in learning the truth. The Rapture is a biblical promise about the second coming of Jesus, that it will occur when he comes back, and it gives NO timing at all except for general clues to the general "season." It will happen for sure, but the timing is up for grabs. The only thing that failed was my personal guess at the timing. The Rapture is still a promise that will eventually be fulfilled. It may be that when it comes it will be a complete and total surprise to everyone and nobody's guess will be right. All this is quite plain in multiple posts already. The personal slurs against me are really unnecessary, sp it must just be that you all enjoy them too much to give them up.

Repeating your fantasies doesn't change the fact that you were wrong. Who are people to believe? Should they believe someone who is wrong over and over again with a demonstrated inability to connect facts to conclusions, indeed to even recognize valid facts? Or should they believe someone who gets things right? I predict that every prediction about the rapture being imminent will be wrong during the rest of my lifetime, just as they've all been wrong since the time of Christ, and just as yours was wrong. I'll be proven right daily.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : no => know


This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by Faith, posted 10-08-2018 6:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 11:48 AM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29844
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 529 of 689 (841211)
10-09-2018 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by Percy
10-09-2018 8:49 AM


Re: pizza
...

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Percy, posted 10-09-2018 8:49 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by Percy, posted 10-09-2018 3:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1504
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 530 of 689 (841218)
10-09-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by Faith
10-09-2018 5:11 AM


Re: loving God
Matthew 22:37-40 King James Version (KJV) writes:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hey! This reminds me of a religious education lesson at school. I remember learning about the Greatest Commandment according to Jesus. That we should love our neighbours as ourselves!

And I remember looking in blank incomprehension at the Bible extract we'd been given that clearly said this was second and wondering 'can't you people read? Do you think we can't?'

No deeper point here, just triggered a memory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 5:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 2:52 PM caffeine has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29844
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 531 of 689 (841219)
10-09-2018 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by caffeine
10-09-2018 2:49 PM


Re: loving God
Interesting memory. Hard to see how that mistake could have happened.

abe: Dare I suggest it was fudged by someone with a "liberal" bias, somehow conflating the two parts into one, because loving neighbor is more like social justice than loving God. ?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by caffeine, posted 10-09-2018 2:49 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by caffeine, posted 10-09-2018 4:32 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17749
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 532 of 689 (841220)
10-09-2018 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
10-09-2018 11:48 AM


Re: pizza
Faith writes:

...

Deleting whatever you said and leaving nothing doesn't help your cause. Again and again you have stated how strange the emails were and that there's truth to Pizzagate, then you ignore the presented evidence and arguments and declare you don't want to talk about it anymore. If you don't want to talk about it then you shouldn't continue making statements about it. Instead you continually baldly state your position then say you're done discussing it. Your behavior lacks all honor and decency, something we've come to expect from you. Your inability to behave well ("good works") suggests you are without divine grace, making your eagerness for the rapture hard to understand.

You should either retract the claim, defend it, or stop posting about it. My guess is you'll do none of these.

By the way, you're a schmo, and I refuse to engage in any discussion about this. If you object I'll just repeat again that you're a schmo and refuse to engage in any discussion.

Of course I don't really think you're a schmo, and even if I did I would discuss it with you. But is the point getting across?

Perhaps your problem is that you let your temper be your guide. Or to rework something Asimov said, anger is a frequent response of the incompetent.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 11:48 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by caffeine, posted 10-09-2018 4:35 PM Percy has responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1504
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 533 of 689 (841223)
10-09-2018 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Faith
10-09-2018 2:52 PM


Re: loving God
Interesting memory. Hard to see how that mistake could have happened.

abe: Dare I suggest it was fudged by someone with a "liberal" bias, somehow conflating the two parts into one, because loving neighbor is more like social justice than loving God. ?

I wouldn't have said liberal bias, but I did suspect at the time that the religious message was being tailored to be more palatable for a secular generation.

Not how I would have worded it when I was 16.

Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 2:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 10-10-2018 3:47 AM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1504
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 534 of 689 (841224)
10-09-2018 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Percy
10-09-2018 3:28 PM


Re: pizza
You should either retract the claim, defend it, or stop posting about it. My guess is you'll do none of these.

I think deleting her post on second thoughts counts as stopping posting about it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Percy, posted 10-09-2018 3:28 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by Percy, posted 10-09-2018 5:23 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17749
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 535 of 689 (841226)
10-09-2018 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by caffeine
10-09-2018 4:35 PM


Re: pizza
caffeine writes:

You should either retract the claim, defend it, or stop posting about it. My guess is you'll do none of these.

I think deleting her post on second thoughts counts as stopping posting about it.

And Lucy might someday let Charlie Brown kick the football.

That is, Faith has no credibility. Look at all the times Faith has declared she's done with a thread because of all the awful and dishonest people and she's not going to post there anymore, and then in no time she's back posting again. What does it say about us if we believe that "..." means she'll stop making Pizzagate allegations going forward? Even if Faith flat out said, "I won't make Pizzagate allegations anymore," should anyone believe her?

Anyway, that's my rationale for not putting a positive spin on "...".

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by caffeine, posted 10-09-2018 4:35 PM caffeine has not yet responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 536 of 689 (841238)
10-09-2018 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by Faith
10-09-2018 5:11 AM


Re: loving God
GDR writes:

For me the focus of my Christianity is not what happens to me in the next life but what God calls me to in this life.

Faith writes:

Which to my mind is a very confused and frustrating statement. Salvation is the first step to being ABLE to live the life God calls us to. People who try to live it without being saved are doing in their flesh what can only be done in the power of God, and we can only have the power of God if we are born again. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;" said Paul in Romans 1:16. What is the "gospel of Christ" but the good news that He has died to pay for our sins, which is what gives us the power to love and serve, without which we really do not have the ability to love and serve though we may think we do.

This is one of the things that bothers me about fundamentalism in general. It is so focused on personal salvation. Jesus said, "judge not that you be not judged" I am quite happy to leave whatever happens to me, or my neighbour, in the next life up to God. It isn't my business to figure out who is in or out. The whole idea of people being told that they have to buy into a specific doctrine in order to be "saved" and have eternal life is repugnant and is the opposite of what Jesus taught.

I hear your form of evangelism as one that tries to scare others into becoming Christian. In other words you should become a Christian because it is going to pay off big time. (Like Pascal's wager) The idea of being a Christian is that we are called to serve Him, not trying to figure out how to get Him to serve us. That has been the failing of so many world religions. It becomes about controlling God instead of allowing Him to control us.

GDR writes:

God has given us life; he has given us various gifts; he has given us the ability to know and share love and so on. What is important in our life is how we use these gifts.

Faith writes:

But he has only given these things to those He's saved, meaning those who DO have the new life, are born again. To slight salvation is to slight the whole life you want to live.


Nonsense. I know numerous non-Christians who are more Christ-like than a lot of Christians I know.

Faith writes:

Or, put it this way: if people do not know they have eternal life, what is to motivate them to serve God at all? It is God's loving us that motivates us to love, and His loving us means He gives us eternal life. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life." And 1 John 4:10: "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."


So you're saying that if you as a Christian you would stop serving God if you came to the conclusion that after death there is simply oblivion. The whole point is that we are to serve a God of love because that is where our heart is. Loving others even sacrificially is supposed to be where we find our joy. Your faith is about loving others because ultimately there is a big pay back, meaning that you are never free to love sacrificially.
Our motivation for committing acts of sacrificial love should be for a Christian the same as any non-Christian. It is done simply because that is where our heart is, and it is the right thing to do.

The idea of being motivated because of being saved is not the message that we get from following Jesus. It is actually the opposite. Yes, the ability to love is a gift from God and we are called to be grateful for that gift, but we show our gratitude for it by spreading it to others and to all of creation for that matter.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 5:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 8:37 PM GDR has responded
 Message 541 by Faith, posted 10-10-2018 4:56 AM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 542 by Percy, posted 10-10-2018 7:24 AM GDR has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29844
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 537 of 689 (841239)
10-09-2018 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by GDR
10-09-2018 8:30 PM


Re: loving God
It simply never occurs to me that such a message of love could be turned into a message of selfishness or hate or whatever it is you do with it. By now I should have learned but I never do. It remains a message of love to me anyway.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by GDR, posted 10-09-2018 8:30 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by GDR, posted 10-10-2018 2:02 AM Faith has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 538 of 689 (841250)
10-10-2018 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 537 by Faith
10-09-2018 8:37 PM


Re: loving God
Faith writes:

It simply never occurs to me that such a message of love could be turned into a message of selfishness or hate or whatever it is you do with it. By now I should have learned but I never do. It remains a message of love to me anyway.


Faith, I'm not questioning the fact that you are a loving wonderful person, and a wonderful Christian. Your tenacity in defending your faith is inspirational and your willingness to study enough to argue against evolution is remarkable. I do disagree with your conclusions but then I simply approach it from a very different perspective as I don't see evolutionary theory to be in any way contradictory to how we should understand Christianity or the Bible.

I do have a problem though with your doctrine. I know that you have retained a message of love from your Christianity. Not everyone can do that however. When you hold to your understanding of how the Bible is to be understood you have to explain to others that God was capable of ordering his followers to commit genocide and engage in public executions by stoning, but that He doesn't do that anymore.

You also have to explain to people why it is that God will assign to hell if they don't get their doctrine right. I just contend that trying to scare people into becoming Christian is not what God wants. It is no wonder that so many completely reject Christianity when it is presented that way.

I'm suggesting that from an evangelical POV what God wants us to respond to His love and often they respond because they can see God's love in His followers.

Sure, tell people that there is life after death where the pain goes away but again I suggest that it shouldn't be used as a carrot on stick. It is just a gift from a loving God and that all of mankind, Christian or not, is called to respond to that love by reflecting it out into the world.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 8:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 10-10-2018 3:56 AM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 543 by Percy, posted 10-10-2018 7:32 AM GDR has responded
 Message 544 by Faith, posted 10-10-2018 11:11 AM GDR has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29844
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 539 of 689 (841251)
10-10-2018 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 533 by caffeine
10-09-2018 4:32 PM


Re: loving God
Interesting memory. Hard to see how that mistake could have happened.

abe: Dare I suggest it was fudged by someone with a "liberal" bias, somehow conflating the two parts into one, because loving neighbor is more like social justice than loving God. ?

I wouldn't have said liberal bias, but I did suspect at the time that the religious message was being tailored to be more palatable for a secular generation.

Not how I would have worded it when I was 16.

Yes, I think you are right, that must have been the motive. We have lots of churches today that think they can lure unbelievers by making the religion less religious. Big churches too so I guess it works. It's just not Christianity.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : finally got the quote box right I hope


This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by caffeine, posted 10-09-2018 4:32 PM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29844
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 540 of 689 (841252)
10-10-2018 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 538 by GDR
10-10-2018 2:02 AM


Re: loving God
I wasn't talking about myself but about the gospel. That's what you turn into something selfish and negative, the gospel itself, what the Bible says about the good news of salvation from sin. I quoted some of the best statements of it, that I think speak clearly of God's love, and I just don't get how you can reduce all that to selfishness or trying to control people or what all, it astonishes me that anyone could see it that way.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by GDR, posted 10-10-2018 2:02 AM GDR has not yet responded

    
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