Take the state out of the schools!!!!!

I'm curious Funk (or anyone, for that matter). Does anyone have any statistics on success rates for homeschooled vs "traditional education"? I'm aware that it would have to be filtered to take into account the relative difference in overall numbers, but it should be possible to at least make some comparisons. What percentage of homeschooled kids go on to become scientists, engineers, mathematicians, historians, politicians, etc? Any data out there, or is this too new a phenomena?As for me personally, even if we were independently wealthy and had no need for jobs, neither my wife nor I would be very good homeschoolers. In spite of various advanced degrees, we both have gaps in our knowledge base - sometimes things that we might not even be aware of. OTOH, I DO agree that any parent who doesn't take the responsibility to supplement regular schooling at home is shirking responsibility. Schools tend to target an average (and in the worst cases, the least common denominator). My wife and I, for instance, spend quite a bit of time expanding or covering subjects that aren't taught, or not taught as deeply as the kids want/need. In my case, #1 daughter is fascinated by science (specifically biology and natural history). Although the school program is a good one, she wants more on specific subjects/concepts - which I provide. The school also does a good job with general world history, but lacks specific focus on US history - so my wife covers that (one of her areas of expertise is US government, strategic policy, and public administration). All in all, I think our kids are getting a great education between the school and home. I would argue that you can't have one without the other, based on our experience.Just my two cents.

Hi funk - I'm gonna hit both posts in this one.Your message #36: Yeah, I realize we're lucky. I'll confess we're not in a US public school (although we had them there for a year awhile back), primarily because we're not in the US . They've been enrolled in an international baccalaureate program for the last three years, being exposed to not only a top-flight academic curriculum, but also to a huge diversity of kids from other cultures (there are currently 26 nationalities in a school with 160 kids k-12), small classes (average size 8-10), and professional, carefully selected international teachers. So don't go by my own experience when judging US schools. Which is why I don't condemn homeschooling outright (although I'm not sure whether it would be a viable option for us). OTOH, the one year they were in US public school, it was a "magnet" school in Arlington VA, so probably was much better overall than the average. If we have to go back to the States, we'll be looking for another magnet or a school with an IB program.Your message #37: Thanks for the statistics. Actually it doesn't show much. The reason I say this is because they are going by standardized tests - which generally only cover math and English. From the one homeschool family I know, those are the two areas where homeschooling generally excells: their kid was reading at 3 grade-levels higher, and two math levels higher than the other kids her age. However, her history, social studies, etc were only average, and her science was abysmal. Great at art and drama, but petrified of performing to a group of peers (no problem with adults, tho'). Also, she was not really well socialized: she got along MUCH better with adults than with other kids her age, whom she really didn't feel comfortable with. Sweet, well-adjusted kid, just think she might have been missing out on something. It also points up the problem others have mentioned - homeschooling is ideal when the parents have sufficient knowledge in all subject areas and/or the ability to learn new material. However, no one is an expert on all subject areas, and once a kid hits high-school level, you're probably going to need help, unless you're simply "teaching to the test" to pass the standard exams.

And yet, Funk, you're taking a "general" idea that doesn't apply in specific cases, and essentially condemning people for not following your sense of "right". My wife and I both work, both have successful careers. However, outside of work, EVERYTHING we do revolves around the kids. I'm on the school board, my wife's a brownie troop leader. We both work with the kids every night (and sometimes every morning - I and my wife were up at 6 am this morning quizzing #1 daughter for a French test - at her request). We take 'em ice skating and skiing every weekend in the winter, and to the lake for swimming every weekend in the summer. We organize and transport for sleepovers, scouting trips, baking classes (!!!!), play dates, etc. One or the other of us has been at every single class presentation and event either kid has. We HAVE sacrificed - my wife and I go out alone maybe three times a year (outside of work-related events) - anniversary and birthday. According to you, we're shirking our responsibilities as parents. Oddly enough, my kids seem to be growing up into quite mature, responsible, reasonably happy and well-adjusted young people.And they're damn smart and pretty well educated as well.My point is that you can't apply general condemnations to specific cases. It's called the "fallacy of division". And it's insulting, to boot.

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Originally posted by schrafinator:

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Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
Quetzal,

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I am so sorry to offend you, though I think you are an acception to the rule. That's awesome! Remember my view is limited to North America.

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Why do you think Quetzal's family is the exception to the rule? Based upon what?

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That's an excellent question, Schraf. With the exception of our wandering lifestyle (3 countries in 8 years), I don't consider us very unusual. Most of my peers with families are quite similar in outlook and behavior. I mean, we're not doing all this racing around with kids by ourselves - a lot of our friends are doing the same thing. I think there's two problems here: 1) funk is operating under an erroneous, religiously-inspired stereotype, and 2) I'm probably the first person to sit down and actually tell him some details about "the other side".Just my thoughts on it.