The rise of faith schools

Faith, I see where you are coming from here: The problem is that I think the government has the responsibility to protect children and provide them some basic rights.We punish parents or even take away children when parents don't provide medical care for their children (or the state provides the medical care).Is it fair to deny children an education because of their parents? This goes for home schooled kids that can barely do math... but we also have to protect kids who can't get a good education because of crappy inner city schools. I consider a basic education a fundamental right... others don't. I consider medical care a fundamental right... others don't. If we privatized our whole society their would be a violent revolt in less than a decade.

Well you mentioned public school which is a secular (non-religious, not anti- or pro-) form of education. This is the type of education one generally needs to be successful in modern society (there are a few exceptions, but most successful and productive people are high-school if not college graduates).I don't think anyone should have a right to a religious education... Also, no one should be prevented from getting a religious education. Maybe we agree here...... I think that religous education is none of the govts business and should not be the concern of the govt.However, this shouldn't mean that parents are allowed to deny their children a decent secular education just because they have the misguided notion that it conflicts with their religion

It's not a nanny government. I have met home schooled kids who are supposed to be at a 3rd grade level who can BARELY READ! Now, maybe their is an argument that it's their parent's right to give them a horrible education... but is that fair to the child?In any case our society has decided that it helps everyone when every child has access to a quality publically financed education.I mean, where do we draw the line about allowing parents to determine what's best?Should parents be allowed to let their children die because they don't believe in blood transfusions?Should parents be allowed to lock their children in the basement for a few days as a disciplinary measure?Should children be forced to go without medical care because their parents decided to spend their money on alcohol and lottery tickets instead of medical insurance?Should parents be allowed to subject their children to malnourishment because they don't believe in eating most types of food? (this actually happened recently).Should parent's be allowed to beat their children for discipline? (I'm on the fence here, I don't think a light spanking ever hurt anyone... a belt is a different matter).I mean, we draw these arbitrary lines all the time. I don't think it's the nanny govt. Parents have the right to educate their own children as long as the kids are getting a similar level of education as public school kids.Whatever you want to believe about American public schools... I will say this. The vast majority of scientists, doctors, engineers, etc... all attended public schools.

Faith,I'm not sure we disagree all that much. Like you said, there are plenty of kids who go to religious schools or are home schooled and do fine. As long as they can demonstrate that they are receiving a quality education (through standardized testing or whatever) than I am fine with it. Of course this should not be paid for with tax money (which we may disagree on). I ALREADY have to support churches I don't go to or agree with because they don't pay property taxes.Public schools in decent areas are the best education available. Now, I will admit that the quality of public education has suffered in poor areas..... but the reasons for that are for another thread.

I have to pay for every church in my town. My property taxes are higher because those churches don't pay property taxes.I have to pay to support churches I don't agree with and you have to pay to support public schools you don't agree with.That's the way democracy works. I have to pay for corrupt corporate welfare and ridiculous no-bid contracts that I believe are immoral... is that any more or less fair?If people don't want to send their kids to public school..... fine.... they still have to pay their taxes.I don't agree with the drug war (I think it's evil and immoral) but I still have to pay taxes that go to support it.

Faith, I'll go with Thomas Jefferson and we all know what he though about organized religion.Think about it this way... if you let the govt. start funding your churches and schools then they are going to start wanting to have a say in what is taught there. Separation of church and state is there to protect both sides. I know you don't want the govt. telling religious schools what they have to teach children (which everyone knows would happen if they started funding them).There are A LOT of government programs that everyone pays for and very few people use. Why are you picking on education in particular?Should someone who never flies have to pay for an airline bailout?Your argument about tax rates is a red herring at best.

Wow, do you really believe the BS you are spouting? Limbaugh? Is that a joke?Fox News has been shown by several studies to be the most inaccurate of the major news outlets (I believe CBS was the second worst). Conversely, NPR is BY FAR the most accurate of the major news services). BBC is another example of a very accurate news source.If you believe Fox News is anything more than BS infotainment I feel very, very bad for you....... Because that means your BS detector really is totally broken. It really reflects poorly on your critical thinking skills.. BUT, critical thinking is something you can practice... I encourage you to spend some time on news.google.com reading news from many different perspectives.

Page not found - Rethinking Schools

From:http://www.news.uiuc.edu/NEWS/06/0123lubienski.html AND

This simply isn't true. Almost all news is corporate-biased and most is right-wing biased these days.Example: Any journalist who actually treats the evolution/creationism contraversy as a real debate with two sides is simply right-wing biased. This is a fact.I feel really bad for you that you can't see what is going on. NPR and the BBC are FAR from left wing. I can point you to some actual liberal news sources if you would like. They are EASILY the most accurate of the news sources. Fox is EASILY the least accurate to the point of comedy. Again, these are facts. I'll see if I can find the studies.http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0521-03.htmOff the Charts - Television News Coverage of Israeli & Palestinian DeathsFAIR - FAIR is the national progressive media watchdog group, challenging corporate media bias, spin and misinformation. isn't up right now or I'd have a lot more. They have analyzed Limbaugh's shows and deducedc that he is nothing more than a fraud and a liar who rarely exposes anything close to the truth.I apologize for the source not being presently available.

I actually have a good perspective on a lot of these things because I used to BE a conservative republican! I listed to limbaugh occasionally (although I always thought his show was for stupid people even when I was a right winger), but I used to listen to G. Gordon Liddy a lot (he actually is funny and is MUCH smarter than limbaugh). After several years I realized after doing some diggin that these people were LYING to me. The truth is out there for those who aren't too lazy to find it.It's not like I am someone coming from a liberal perspective calling these guys out... I used to believe the crap they spew, so I know why it's BS and why people fall for it

Crashfrog... I couldn't have said it better myself.The refusal of the media to really investigate the election fraud that has been occurring tells you everything you need to know. It's not like that's a partisan issue. Democrats could do the exact same thing in the future.aBe: Notice that they spend 1000% more time on things like the missing girl on spring break and other related stuff. Give me a breakThis message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 04-10-2006 02:46 PM

As Jar said, we seem to have gone off topic.So back to faith based schools. I have no problem with people sending their children to faith based schools as long as that school provides an equivalent curriculum. Is it fair to send your kids to a school that refuses to teach geometry because it conflicts with their beliefs?That being said, if you want to send your kids to a faith based school you are going to have to pay out of your own pocket. There is a separation of church and state and atheists like myself should not have to pay even more taxes that support things we don't believe in and find ridiculous.Please don't argue that public schools are at all similar. Public school curriculums are dteremined by elected officials (or those appointed by elected officials) and experts in their field. Evolution will continue to be taught in public schools until someone finds evidence to falsify it.

Actually it is true that YOU can't test it. But there are plenty of others who have for more expertise who can.