What led you to God?

The setting was perfect for me to find a reason to love the God that I see. I thought about tribal lands, and times when life was a little more simple. When entertainment came in reading books, and the family life in agrarian landscapes. When we had time to think, and we lived for not industry.I thought if I was put on the earth, and never learned to love God, and never understood the Lord almost forced and through fear at a camp that gave me a questioning spirit, and put my head on straight, what would my life be like? Would I enjoy it more, would I have more friends in High school, would I have these things that I want so badly at times? What if I was in a tribe in Africa, or a desolate region, and I looked at what was around me, would I believe in God, would I find a purpose, or a path?Would then this path that I had found be what I would want it to be? Would God show himself to me using tribal religion, some sort of alternative to Christ? I thought about how beautiful life would be with a life like that, and how precious my beliefs are to me, how good it is to believe in a messiah, and a saviour. It would be very different that way. To find God, I could not rely on the wisdom of the biblical authors whom I have embraced as truth, as godliness, instead I would rely on myself, on transendance, and through the earth, I would come to a conclusion someday, maybe quickly, or slowly, that God exists, and I have to have some sort of reason to live.These beliefs came to me easily, and they were practically handed to me, but I thought about it, and I realized that I would believe in God, in Christ, however more indirectly, no matter what. That life would not deal me a hand that I could not somehow influence and start on a passage to truth.So my question to you isHow did you find God?
Why haven't you?This message has been edited by CoonDawg, 12-10-2005 01:51 AM

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I think the text changed a bit since your original proposal, so I couldn't find the exact line that surprised me):

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It seemed you were saying that in certain circumstances, such as living in a very "primitive" cultural setting, you might have ended up worshipping someone/thing other than Christ, but that it would have been a sort of Christ-in-disguise customized specifically for you by God.

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Lest you think I'm criticising you, let me tell you I think that is a beautiful idea.

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But then again, I think all religon is essentially the same (and not in a demeaning/derogatory way).

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No, you have captured the essence of my original post, the beauty is in the different paths that our souls guide us through to one thing. God.

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- If you found Christ as some part of nature, or as some other deity, (especially if God presented Christ to you in that manner), are you any less a Christian than someone who goes to church every Sunday and knows His "name"?

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I believe that no matter the way that one may find God, Christ, Allah, themselves, transcendance, enlightenment, nirvana, or heaven, they are all the same in the fact that they are one essential goal of absolute truth. The person who knows his "name" has been taught, has been shown the truth, and most of these people because of how 'easy' it was for them to know of God, take advantage of it, and forget about it. The Native American on the other hand has met his maker through constant struggle in his mind and nature's voice.

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- If God is sending Christ to different people in different ways according to His plan, what does that say for Christian missionary work? Isn't it actually going against God's plan, in a way?

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I feel that God speaks our language, and by the time of the end of our lives everyone transcends somehow, by some means, to seek the truth that God wants us to be apart of. I don't feel that the sharing of one's path to truth is a mistake, or something to be shunned, I think that whoever hears his voice will decide for themselves someday, and any reason is incapable of tearing this invisible feeling away.

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- If accept that God could present Christ to you in another form, then how are you sure that you are not actually worshipping another deity who has presented Himself to you in your cultural context, that is, as Christ?

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One deity that presents itself in various ways all leading to the Enlightenment of some sort, another deity doesn't exist. The faith that I have chosen to be apart of is one that will take my life to understand, and I believe it is as beautiful as it gets.

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- Does it matter which God(s) you worship, if there exists one true deity (or deities) that reaches people via different religious modes?

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No.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

A lot of what you said had nothing to do with my intentions, and were elementary attepts at insulting people with faith.

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What is all this based on, some kind of dream that you had, or do you really think that this is based in some sort of historic reality?

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I met a man in a ski lodge, (dweller), he said that there is a Chinese curse to be born into a busy time, so you could not think about the 'meaning of life'.

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You don’t seem to realise how self deluding this sounds. You are entering all these situations with deeply entrenched preconceptions; of course you are going to think God is wonderful if you allocate every good feeling that you have to the fluffy little Jesus character. Next time you see pictures in the media of the thousands of starving children who die every day across the world, when you see people dying because they don’t have a few dollars to pay for simple health care, or you see babies born with terrible medical conditions that only allow them to live for a few painful days, do you still get that wonderful spiritual feeling that lovely Jesus is in control. Yes, God is such a wonderful entity when we ignore His incompetence.

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And these terrible unfortunate lives of the starving, exploited, and desecrated, where will they rest? Will they die, only knowing of the earth that became a hell on earth? Placed 6 feet underneath the earth, if they are lucky? To deny a God, to portray God as incompetent because of this allows their lives to be as simple as the tragic deaths of the unfortunate on TV, what of an afterlife? Victims of human nature, and we can calmly shout out at God for these deaths, these crimes. I can see that these lives were not in vain, and they will find paradise.

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It certainly wouldn’t be as much of a waste of time that it is at the moment. Suffocating yourself in all this self deluding God nonsense is extremely sad, there’s so much more you could do with your time, perhaps when you grow up you might be able to shake yourself loose from the programming you have received, I certainly hope so.

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The "programming" was the intent of the OP. God gives me purpose. Where is yours? In the interactions of everyday life, in the love, and the relationships with others? Tell me, where will this purpose be when you die without the existance of a creator?

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So, I am sure you would still convince yourself that there is a god, regardless of your geographical location.

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At the origin to the belief in God, there is no convincing, there is awakening, then comes the thoughts of justification, to show others that what I know is truth.

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Is life not beautiful without there being a god?

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How good is it to believe in a messiah?

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What is it you wish to be saved from?

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Life would not matter without a God.
To be saved from not discovering the truth.

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Just blindly accepting that everything in the Bible is true means that a great deal of the beauty if the Bible has been lost to you

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Am I the one who has lost the beauty, or have you? You have reasoned out the truth that has been shown to you using methods that cannot explain the methods of God. As all of the theologians who I have seen or personally discussed matters with, they tell the genesis tales as they were told by storytellers of the days, using the biblical knowledge and that of language to portray a myth similar to the Grecian myths of origins. And Moses' journeys, they lose all of their meaning, what I have accepted as truth, scholars have lost inside a world of logic, history, and reason. They forget that God is unable to be explained with the reason they have applied.

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Millions, probably billions, of children have been brainwashed by well-meaning Christians. They pollute the young brain with their fantasies before the child has entered the abstract thinking stage of their development. Fortunately, a lot of these people become free thinkers as they mature, unfortunately, far too many people are happy to remain in this state of blissful, wilful ignorance.

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If these that you speak of are unable to think alternatively for truth, then maybe they are lost. But the "brainwashing" is simply the sharing of a particular philosophy of the world, abuse is not of the religion, but of the religious, bring your tirade to them, not the ideas that I have accepted as truth. And why only this critique to that of Christianity? Why not to every religion, or idea about God, truth, or Origins? What is it that you reject? Are you discovering the uselessness in your reason in this area?

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How do you know you would believe in Christ if you were brought up in an African village? That is if you can find an African village that hasn’t been polluted by Christianity.

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I believe I have tried to explain this, but Christ is not only the Christ that has been closed off inside your head as false.

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Finally, why should anyone bother to seek out God when it is obvious that a great many people are fulfilled without Him/Her/It?

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Are these things that fulfill you only to be washed away with your death? What a tragic existance without meaning.

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How would you respond to someone who has found the One true God, Allah? Have they found God?

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Of course.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

Thanks for the encouragement phat.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

I dunno, whatever.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

Is that it? Is this sad picture the end for these unfortunate souls? I don't think so. If you do think so, then keep denying them their afterlife.

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these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

This book, these pages have become a part of my being, as I read it I can stand up and feel good about what I have chosen as my path. These letters are tied to my soul, and I feel so good, I feel so good to be a Christian, and it's wierd, it all comes at a time when I began to question myself, and all of the foundation beneath the very beliefs that I have begun to tell you all about, and express in debate. But the questioning is now over, and I have turned a new leaf in my faith as a follower of truth. John 3:11 refreshed me. "I won't lose you God, I know you're manifested in this book."This message has been edited by PORTEUS, 12-10-2005 10:33 PM

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

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Well, your intention was to promote how wonderful God is and how great it is to believe in Jesus the Christ. According to you “ The setting was perfect for me to find a reason to love the God that I see ,” yes, the setting was perfect to believe in fluffy Jesus, and it is easy to experience this when you are sitting in an air-conditioned room looking out the window at a nice sunny, idyllic scene, knowing that it is almost lunchtime and there's a lovely meal with your name on it in the canteen. But, since you see fluffy Jesus in the nice areas of life, why don't you give Him credit for creating cancer, AIDS, and every other cruel illness that He created? Do you still see a wonderful Jesus when you look at a starving child, or are you selective?

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Yes, it's easy for me to be able to say these things, in heat, in luxury, but for that to detract from any feelings for the existence of God, I'm not willing to apologize. I understand how you can start to call out God for these diseases, and this hell that so many experience. But I also know that without a God, these people could never experience bliss, in life on earth, or the afterlife. Life is good to many people, I never see a wonderful image of Jesus, I don't know what he looks like, and when I see starving children I think of why I was born into a life in America, so nice, when there are millions who are born into lives such as those for starving children. There is nothing I can do to change that, and I have a hard time grasping why there is this game, some get the hand they wanted, and a lot don't, it doesn't make sense I know, but rebuking me for it doesn't make sense. You're saying it was easy for me to realize that God exists, and I don't know if that is entirely true. It is commonly a daily struggle.Finding reasons becomes a strategy to discuss things with others, and to prove to myself that I am not crazy. Maybe I needed it I don't know. I do know that as horrible it is for so many, that they will not be without transendance, and they are worthier than me, for being able to live with God in these circumstances.

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You have missed the point. Yes, these are terrible unfortunate lives, but why are they terrible and unfortunate? Why is God such an incompetent buffoon?

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Why does God allow pain and suffering?He gave us free will. But what about?

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Victims of tsunamis, earthquakes, and other natural disasters are not victims of human nature. See what happened last xmas after the tsunami, God did nothing, while mankind was incredibly generous. Humans worked extremely hard to undo the terrible work that Yahweh did that day.

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God didn't want it to be this way.

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So, your crumb of comfort is certainly not biblical, but I am sure you will have a whole barrow load of excuses for God

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I believe that acceptance of the different paths to God might actually be supported. The Gods that have been written about may be all the same. It is a strong Christian belief that any other religions as similar as they are, are instead false, but aren't these beliefs all held as truth, and there is only one God. Tell me why it's unsupported using references, I'll try to do the same soon, but I have a AP Bio Test tommorrow.The rest of your post is rather redundant, I'll try to get everything in a paragraph or so, I really should be looking up genetics on wikipedia right now. But you have asked questions that have bothered me for a long time, and I am still having trouble answering them. Especially, why God allows suffering...You are trying to make this a conflict between Islam, and Christianity, but realize that I believe that most of these religions are tied together to explain truth. I said God gives me purpose because without a God, there is no afterlife, and we cease to exist, this means that my Life on earth holds no meaning, it is just "gone", and our love in this life ceases to matter. I don't think that is how it is, I believe that because God exists, our purpose is to understand it, what is commonly referred to seeking truth. Theology, philosophy, all these explanations for one thing, why we are here, and why we exist, and what is our purpose as humans. Part of my purpose is to understand the what I can safely say obvious existence of God.

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You will never discover the Truth if you accept the first cookie that you are offered.

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Hear me out. All of the cookies are essentially the same, every single piece of religion dedicated to answering the fundemental questions about GOD, are all attempts to explain GOD, all of these paths, buddhism, hinduism, christianity, islam, etc, they are all one in the same. We all are in this mess together attempting to explain it all, and you reject me, because you think that I have accpeted blindly this faith, this belief in Jesus as God, but you can't change the fact that I see this truth, and I see this beauty. You must see that there is no difference, between me and a person involved in tribal religion or eastern philosophies about life.I believe that you have lost the beauty in believing something that you can't see or use reason to explain.I'll leave you with lyrics to a song by a band I just saw live. P.O.D. They are not considered Christian rock, but I think they have a message.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

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Pompous elitist christian claptrap. Your statement implies that non-christians from Africa(by the way I think Africa has the one worlds largest populations of christians)have a life without purpose, without meaning. That is pretty damn arrogant of you.

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Actually, no, that is the exact opposite of what I intended, or ever said. You missed the point of the Post, and you're not worth my time.

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I have a fantastic life. I am a very moral person. I am happy with my life, my wife and where I am in my life.

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That's fantastic, so what happens when this life ends?

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I have no need or desire to follow some ancient mythology.

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Ancient mythology = God?That's sort of sad.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

Looks as if the topic went down in flames.People get mad when asked about God, that's wierd.Personal testimony turns into nazism, lol.It's alright, It's alright.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

I was describing a thought I had about being born as part of a tribe instead in America. You found it racist, which was totally off the mark.

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You die. You become worm dirt. Ideally, you body returns to the earth so that what is you can be used to create and nourish new life. Why is this concept so difficult for christians to accept? Why must there be something afterward?

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That should be displayed as my signature.But I wonder why you find believing in this as your destiny after death to be true. Nothing has given you thought of the existance of a God, or an afterlife? I asked why, within the Opening Topic. If you think that the question is unfair, then you can, and should disregard the OP.I just can't see how life could be beautiful without the existance of a God. And I wondered why this could fulfill you, the life here, without knowledge of a God, or of an afterlife. I say this not with regard to insult, but rather in how one would accept that the earthly life that is so great here would mean nothing after one's death. Anything that would ensue from then on would not matter at all, because non-existance would be a standard. What you have decided on, have believed, have loved, would be utterly lost, I can't bring myself to think of not existing, of not being able to remember or to think. It must not be natural.

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Judeo-Christian mythology is just another mythology. Why sad? In what I beieve that is what it is.

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You seem to focus on Christianity, when God is represented on more than that one particular philosophy.You misunderstood me. When I said Ancient Mythology = God, I was asking why you made that correlation to the word "God". Not the word Christianity, or Christ.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

What an amazing dream.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

It's not really about what I feel but rather, your decision about whether or not your life on earth actually has any significance what so ever.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

I talked to him about it in chat a little.

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You think just because we do not believe in a god our liveve has no significance.

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Wrong, I think that without God we would not have significance. This means that I think that you are significant.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

The purpose of the thread was not out of self gratification, but emerged out of a thought of tribal religion and God. The question was very clear, it stated the point. I'm sorry if I have defiled it. What led you to God?I wish I knew all the languages of the world.

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Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.