good things bad things. what does God really do?

Mike, I am sorry if it seems like we are gang-banging you, but the question is in need of an answer; if your answer is 'I don't know', then so be it, that's cool.
It would appear that if people are being miraculosly healed, that there would be SOME supporting documentation from the doctor/hospital, etc. If a lung were to appear where there was none before, spontaneous generation of a limb, or (I have heard this from the pulpit) an actual resurrection (!), I would think that these events would be made public; they would be easy to test and falsify, provided they have seen a doctor regarding their now healed condition.
Thanks for your thoughts Mike, talk to you later.{edited for speeling lol}[This message has been edited by Pogo, 09-17-2003]

I will try to do Paul Reviere as Mike parethezied below but in this post I will try NOT to bring to mind any images as the avatars on this board are quite idolic when not outright just funny.This post will not make all the links to being Mike's wizard of this dungenon and dragons maze but if the dice rolls my way again I will try to put the roof back on what the tumult may storm in the next few days...It was asked earlier that we accomodate cycling the discussion BACK to the trilemma. I, BSM, dealt with this once but in My posting in this thread I did not distinguish the relative panorama of Satan from God in the Absolute. On ICR Forum Discussions I had eneterd a discussion of Satan but I then very frigidly decided not to post any more under this topic because I clearly did not understand Satan as well as the other creationists I was CONVERSING with. If there is a response to this post. I will go back to Mike the Wiz cool carpool of nonculdesac statments that are clearly written and clearly understood. But now as I have also in other posts mentioned the "e" word, I will explain why I havent driven a car since 1991. You/one only need(s) to "catch" a bus in Ithaca NY. 90210 is no match for 14850.I have taken out of this strand that there was a CONVERGENCE that brought up the issue of Satan and now Asgara asks, I assume with good intentions, if all any or every of this means does/is Satan MORE powerful than God? This question I can and will answer as an introduction to tag teaming with Mike on this if he wishes else we may end up talking more about the bad than not THEN the good. That is the crucial point. We had made it past the "then" and this IS WHY if I may speak for Mike that he is frustrated. I had been with Randy as well. I could not believe that evo promoters tend to port ONLY to deprecrate what THEY and not GOD precieve as NOT what THEY (_insert name-+if you wish)THOUGHT or THINK or...well we all get the pictures. I however do not see the colors on the activity meters for some reason...but I regress.Now the answer- NO-
Now how hard was that? was it harder than answering Mark-4 yes? YES!
It was as hard as accepting that whomever responds will either argue with me that that have "not" seen in our discussions POLARITY and BOND or else that there is and has not been enough talk about the physical force of any metaphyics of Polarity and Bond in Matchette's "As we have seen in our discussions of Polarity and discussion of Bond, the point of convergence"... Please remeber this, that this is where in this thread one may (if Bad?) think a "then" than the "than" I will try to extract once again from quoting Matchette. And in this process show how if not why it is that IN THIS THREAD the LOOM itself can not remand that Satan is more powerful than God. IF we abuse the knoweldge I will attempt to wrest from 50 year old writing then we have made a transition from talking about the good done to the bad- but I would leave it to God who or what is denoted by this transition...The reason all this makes sense is that we are going to look, once again at the TRILEMMA and I continue from that perspective only so far. The immediate quote of Matchetted continued then, "convergence of the Referend-Referent chain of the Relative world is the immaterial Absolute, Final Referent. The Referent-Referrend relationship is, thus, evidential of the ordering influence of the Absolute in the psychical as well as the physcio-material realm. Sanity and reason, the harmony of thought and emotion, are orders; and as such are no less dependent for their existence upon Absolute order than the ordered harmony of plaentary regularity and uniformity."Let us say that Satan can control the orbit of Halley's comet into and out of theOORt cloud and or any deviance of a SOVLED many-body problem...(ie let THE SATAN control any number of earthly or solar bodies (this is not limited to our galaxy however)). "In a twofold sense, our Polar view of the totality of Being mediates between the intellectually exhausted and sensually jaded rejection of the reality of a world in any sense determined,and the essentailly neurotic view of spirit and the determined world as posing an horrendous and appling incompatibility. For in one sense, it agrees that the world of nature is determined, but it reinterprets the nature of that determination so that the irreconcilability ofa self-determined spirit and a determined world of action springing from Spirit are no longer incompatible. It agrees that the world of nature is, in a sense, unreal, but not so unreal as to vanish into the Maya of the eastern mysticism."p83.Let Satan mediate this as well. NOW, "Although the Polar view of the world rejects the above problem and the dualism it entails, it recognizes that there is a problem in all this. Simply to turn from the point, is to be blind to a real sense of tragedy which 'the modern' possesses in his intellectual philosophic heritage."but becuase I thought I showed that the trilemma divided soma (or genetics if you want to get bio-technical with me (as you know I do not step back from THAT scientific challenge)) when it should have stuck to symbols it is GOOD that this view either challenges Kant today AS IT IS SCIENCE or we are BLIND to Satan and not being Satan in the same sense that we are not GOD=> (a) logic comes (the) full circle. This can be reexplained and slowed down if you didnt get it. I do not have lots of time however for all kinds of little eddies that remain cellular however for that requires a platform able to support life when not in death deadly as it was. Let us not polarize the posters' but the post. The choice is not an axiom. Plese read words not space. Cheating only goes bad. This is not a test. Nor is this a curse.[This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 09-17-2003]

R, maybe you and I of MSN fame are not "we". Try that. Moutain and Pacific are also not the same. you have sided then with ONe of the populations. I thought this was GOD VS SATAN not ME vs YOU. There was an interesting quesion about "faith" that went unresovled recently on true seekers and the question put by Meyer was quite white that I was willing to rephrase it so so you can see that the web space here is not about YOU or US and in the context of what I for one responded to in this thread, the interesting TRiLemmA doesnt mean as per my prior that you as a population of cells can speak for Satan. You are free to speak for youself but I see you speak for youself and some one/other else you name "we". I did not demand or remand that Mike team up with me and help me throw the cargo out with my genes but you and some satanic if not eastern mystic thought did unless I am a bad boy that steped over a NOPD line did agaisnt the law in the south probably becuase I did not walk to New Orleans but drove straight from Ithaca in 24 hours. I had the chance to chech out what you said and found it was technicallyNOT true. that may not have been your fault as you could either have been under satan's influence -- not likely, or else just made a probable inference that turned in truth to not be true.

mike the wiz responds to me:

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Irrelevant. Nobody is talking about where disease comes from. The question is why you still have it even though you have faith.

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Because SATAN IS THE ENEMY and wants to defeat and kill.

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Irrelevant.Unless you're saying that the devil is stronger than god and can prevent god from healing somebody. Are you saying that? If not, then answer the question:Why does a faithful person still have a disease that god wishes to heal?

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What makes you think you know that god has healed anybody?

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I think I know, because of testimonies,

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That isn't evidence. What if they told you that all-powerful Satan healed them. Would you believe them? What if they told you Allah did it? Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? Or the power of positive thinking? All you need is somebody to tell you that it was the special magnetic waters and you'll believe him?

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I have heard hundreds,

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Irrelevant. They all resort to the same level of confidence: Somebody simply said so. No controls, no observation, no methodology. "God healed me because I said god healed me."There are hundreds and thousands of people who claim that Allah healed them, that chiropracty did it, that sleeping under a pyramid cured them. Do you believe them, too?

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also it says God is the God of the living, and I know he heals today.

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That doesn't answer the question.If god heals today, why do the faithful still have disease? Shouldn't god have cured them? Unless you're saying that the devil is more powerful than god, then these faithful people should have received the blessing of god and been cured.So why are they still sick?

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Are you saying

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If I have not declared it, do not sy to me ' are you saying' and then put a load of nonsense on the screen.

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I didn't. I quoted you directly. You said not all people have faith.We're not talking about people without faith. We're talking about people with faith. Since they have faith, why are they still sick?Surely the devil isn't more powerful than god and can keep god from healing someone.

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Whatever I have said is what I am saying. GET IT?

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Yes.What you're saying is that the reason they are still sick is because they are evil, sinful people doing the thing that makes god vomit.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

mike the wiz responds to me:

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How do you know it was supernatural?

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When cavities dissapear,

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That'll happen when you use a fluoride toothpaste. How do you know it was supernatural?

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lungs are replaced,

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That'd make the medical journals. Why can't I find any articles about lungs regenerating?

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cancer dissapears

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It's called "remission." It happens all the time. How do you know it was supernatural?

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and even the doctors acknowledge it, that is enough for me.

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Oh, I see...anything that makes somebody scratch his head is the result of god.

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And what do you say to someone who was supernaturally healed?

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Prove it. What controls were established? How was data taken? What comparisons to similar cases were carried out and what were the conclusions?Just because somebody says it doesn't mean it is true.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Rhain my friend,We also dont hear ""about "biologically closed electric circuits" even though it was based on lung tissue research and the theory behind these lungs were used to treat thousands of patients differntly in China than here.I pointed out two other kinds of "research" to Cornell Profs who hadnt heard of them but said nonetheless to paraphrase, "if I havent heard of it it probably isnt important." But on your own count this is more probable than I said God healed me hear say. Creation SCIENCE is one step above EVEN this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Visit a cancer ward some time. Talk to the people about God and their prayer. Come back a year later. Ask whose still alive.

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They will still be alive.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

messenjaH, Oh yeah, Christians don't die of horrific illnesses because they pray?Name a SINGLE illness that Christians get away with that everybody else gets.If you can't, then your last comment was just childish, not to mention crashingly STUPID.Mark------------------
"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."

Show me a case where a doctor acknowledged that a lung has reappeared, and I'll send you a dozen cookies. It should be quite easy if it happened - there's no doctor on the planet Earth who wouldn't want their name in a medical journal for being the discoverer of something so wonderful.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

sorry for this being off topic... i'm not going to join into this discussion because i think it's too much of science trying to infringe on religion.anyway... does anyone else have trouble understanding brad? no offence, but... i don't know... can you just... maybe... summarize what you say at the end of your post in clear small words with lots of punctuation and no references to wizards and dungeons and dragons?

Yes.Many theories have been proposed to explain Brad's continuing incomprehensibility, I tend to favor an explanation of some potential neurological condition or damage. But what the hell do I know?If I can just add a gripe: recursive parantheticals belong in Lisp programming, and nowhere else.

like the good boy
I am
I responded to you
@the coffe shop where tension dissipates...I am sure you know your way around here to find it without a link.
oh yEA and i put it UNDER my Name-Brad McFall. Imagine that, the chickens are learning to GET to this other side![This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 09-19-2003]

'What you're saying is that the reason they are still sick is because they are evil, sinful people doing the thing that makes god vomit.'Please, anyone, search my posts and see if you find me saying this.Untill then Rhain, simply please DO NOT put words I totally disagree with , in my mouth!

Thanks for helping Brad, I also find Rhains 'we' puzzling to say the least.And what is all this 'gods vomit' - baffles me.

I am NOT alone! Brad, I can almost understand every 37th word. LOL! MessenjaH, why do we not see that happening? Besides, why would christians that benefit from Healing in the Attonement, be in a hospital (cancer ward) anyway? It would seem largely unnecessary; and if these healed christians exist, why do they only tell their testimonies at church?
Again, all they would have to do is present medical documentation that supports their now healed condition. Seems like it would be an easy thing to prove. Sure, you would have your detractors and skeptics; but evidence that can be tested and verified tends to silent most skeptics, right?
So, we have more or less concluded that christians (the good, based on grace) are healed (the bad, cured of disease that god gave them in the first place), based on their faith. If this is so, I just do not see it.