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Author Topic:   Can God lie?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 46 of 79 (146953)
10-03-2004 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
10-03-2004 4:26 AM


Further, where do you get the idea that Satan is not a Biblical reality?

he is, but not in the sense we think of him. he's one of god's angels, possibly a son of god (see job). he serves the will of god by testing mankind.

it's an absolutely wrong reading to assume that god is good and satan is evil, the two being in opposition. god is both, and neither. personally, i have faith that everything serves a greater purpose, even apparent evils.

and so i have no problem with god lying for our own good. like i said, who am i to judge god?

but the text is simply contradictory. genesis is filled with evidence of god changing his mind too. look at sodom or the flood. numbers and samuel may say he doesn't do it, but genesis says he does.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 47 of 79 (147011)
10-03-2004 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by arachnophilia
10-03-2004 6:19 AM


arachnophilia writes:

which are you more attached to, the bible being the word of god, or god not lying? no, you can't have both. personally, i'm not attached to either. if god wants to lie, who am i to judge god?

OK..I can respect that YOU respect God without acknowledging the Bible...but without the Bible, how do you even know if you are acknowledging the right God? Now I know that there is only One, but there are also numerous wannabe spirits masquerading behind many false belief systems. If you believe that God can lie, and can do whatever He wants to do, how do you know that the inner voice that you hear is God? I believe that the Book was given as a standard...so that we would know who the real God is. Seeing as how the early Believers had no book, the only other method of validation is to gather in prayer/fellowship with likeminded belivers. Likeminded means "of the same Spirit". You can't have some all inclusive room of religious truth seekers and have the same spirit. Try it...I know. In this world, there are competing spirits. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is the right one and the only one with any real power. How do you tell Him apart from the other ones?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by arachnophilia, posted 10-03-2004 6:19 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 113 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 48 of 79 (147045)
10-03-2004 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
10-03-2004 2:54 PM


Phatboy writes:

I believe that the Book was given as a standard...so that we would know who the real God is.

Why do you believe this? I'm sure you didn't get the idea from the book itself. In the book, God is known by his power.

quote:
You will know that I am the LORD when I have set fire to Egypt. Ezekiel 30:8 RSV

In this world, there are competing spirits. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is ... the only one with any real power. How do you tell Him apart from the other ones?

Haven't you have already answered the question? You tell him apart from the other ones by his power.

Didn't Saint Peter admonish believers to ... test the spirits?

db


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 49 of 79 (147111)
10-04-2004 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
10-03-2004 2:54 PM


OK..I can respect that YOU respect God without acknowledging the Bible...but without the Bible, how do you even know if you are acknowledging the right God?

how do you know with the bible? i don't see how it makes any difference. i've read my share of religious texts, and if i just based it on the literature, i'd have been a buddhist a long time ago.

the bible is a good perspective on god, but the bible is not god.

If you believe that God can lie, and can do whatever He wants to do

i'm not totally sure i do. i don't care much either way, but i'm leaning towards him being mostly omnipotent and being able to lie.

how do you know that the inner voice that you hear is God?

i don't know. it's called faith.

I believe that the Book was given as a standard...so that we would know who the real God is.

but there is nothing standard about the book. there is no one canon, and no one book by one author. it is a collection of collections, all by different authors, different sources, and at different times. it is very inconsistent.

but on some level, your statement may be true.

Seeing as how the early Believers had no book, the only other method of validation is to gather in prayer/fellowship with likeminded belivers. Likeminded means "of the same Spirit".

please research the history of the early christian church. there was no unification until about 300 ad, when a canon was compiled. but they all had books, and all congregations of likeminded believers.

some of those churches were systematically removed and executed for heresy.

Obviously, the Holy Spirit is the right one and the only one with any real power. How do you tell Him apart from the other ones?

that's not so obvious, my friend.

i used to go to pentacostal churches. people would get "drunk" with the holy spirit, roll around on the floor, talk gibberish, and see stuff. they would tell me that god had promised things, but they never came true. is that holy spirit at work, or are they being duped?


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Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 50 of 79 (147127)
10-04-2004 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by arachnophilia
10-04-2004 2:54 AM


Drunk in the Spirit? or sloshed on sensationalism?
Aracnophilia writes:

I used to go to pentacostal churches. people would get "drunk" with the holy spirit, roll around on the floor, talk gibberish, and see stuff. they would tell me that god had promised things, but they never came true. is that holy spirit at work, or are they being duped?

Yeah, me too. I experienced a few times that were definitely out of the ordinary, but how would I know if it was not merely mass hypnosis? I am sure that there was a spiritual realm involved, but which spirit it was I DO NOT Know. I grew stronger as a Believer during the quiet times when I was certain that I felt Gods presence. I still operate at that level of faith...and I rarely even feel the presence any more. I am growing stronger despite lack of emotional confirmation.

This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-04-2004 02:56 AM


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 51 of 79 (147129)
10-04-2004 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
10-04-2004 3:53 AM


Re: Drunk in the Spirit? or sloshed on sensationalism?
me too.

but how would I know if it was not merely mass hypnosis?

i'm positive it was. because, try as i might, i could never be a part of it. similarly, i don't find alcohol or drugs fun, and the placebo effect fails miserably on me. i just have a rational analytical mind that doesn't allow blips of schizophrenia.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 52 of 79 (147179)
10-04-2004 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by arachnophilia
10-04-2004 4:00 AM


Re: Drunk in the Spirit? or sloshed on sensationalism?
Heh heh...I remember one such service in particular. It was during the time of the so called "Toronto Blessing" whereby everyone was supposed to get drunk in the spirit and laugh uncontrollably. The guest speaker began doing it, as did the Pastor and the Elders. As if on cue, everyone else began "feeling" drunk and laughing, and all I did was sit there and observe this insane display of mimicing behavior. I was never the guy who would raise his hands when the speaker would say "lift up your hands!" I always waited until I wanted to do something before I did it. You won't catch me at the airport selling daisies!
This message is a reply to:
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Amlodhi
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 79 (147205)
10-04-2004 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
10-04-2004 12:13 PM


Re: Drunk in the Spirit? or sloshed on sensationalism?
quote:
. . . all I did was sit there and observe this insane display of mimicing behavior.

Phatboy


quote:
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.

Mark Twain



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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 54 of 79 (147361)
10-05-2004 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
10-04-2004 12:13 PM


Re: Drunk in the Spirit? or sloshed on sensationalism?
and all I did was sit there and observe this insane display of mimicing behavior.

i have to agree in part with amlodhi's post in response to this. such displays made me question my faith for a long time.


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DD2014
Junior Member (Idle past 1237 days)
Posts: 17
From: Cali, USA
Joined: 01-06-2009


Message 55 of 79 (499694)
02-19-2009 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Cold Foreign Object
04-12-2004 8:51 PM


quote:
When God possesses His word I claim that it is inerrant and without contradiction. When He transfers that word to a chosen vessel for recording it instantly has the potential to become errant/contradictory.

But if Got is all powerful (ie. created the univrse, flooded the whole world, and destroyed sodom and gomorrah.) you would think he could get a few people who were not total morons to write down his instructions to salvation.

Edited by DD2014, : No reason given.


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adelpit346
Junior Member (Idle past 2448 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 04-05-2010


Message 56 of 79 (553793)
04-05-2010 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by xBobTheAlienx
04-11-2004 10:29 PM


Spam

Edited by adelpit346, : added more info:')

Edited by AdminSlev, : No reason given.


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anthonylau 
Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 2436 days)
Posts: 20
Joined: 04-24-2010


Message 57 of 79 (557233)
04-24-2010 12:46 AM


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michaelrobin
Junior Member (Idle past 2217 days)
Posts: 3
From: Tempe
Joined: 11-29-2010


Message 58 of 79 (593737)
11-29-2010 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by mike the wiz
04-12-2004 2:10 PM


Impossible for God to lie.
The biblical text clearly states that it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore anything else written in the holy scriptures never refutes this statement in anyway. You must understand that there are some things God can't do, and lying is one of them. I hope this helps you..
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 59 of 79 (593738)
11-29-2010 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by michaelrobin
11-29-2010 12:28 AM


Re: Impossible for God to lie.
The biblical text clearly states that it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore anything else written in the holy scriptures never refutes this statement in anyway. You must understand that there are some things God can't do, and lying is one of them. I hope this helps you.

But there is that little business of the global flood, that clearly never happened as described.

Oops?

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5700
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 60 of 79 (593739)
11-29-2010 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by michaelrobin
11-29-2010 12:28 AM


Re: Impossible for God to lie.
You must understand that there are some things God can't do, and lying is one of them.

Not much of a god then is it. Seems to be pretty limited.

Are you just going to assert things and provide no evidence or argument for you position?

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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