What is the evolutionary advantage to religion?

So, as the year draws to a close (or has already finished for those who use a solstice new year marker), one has to wonder ... What is the evolutionary advantage to religion?
{I have changed the previously very vague topic title ("The Advantage ... what is it?") to the above phrase. - Adminnemooseus}why it has evolved can be discussed elsewhere (there are studies that point to it being a co-evolved trait with sexually selected ability for song and dance) ...what I want to know is what is the advantage given by religion(s) that allows it to pesist.enjoy.(ps - admin: I see this as posted on {biological evolution} as it really pertains to evolution of a trait rather than what the trait is.)This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 12-28-2004 12:28 AM{edited to turn on e-mail notices}This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-03-2005 19:32 AM

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

and we're offthank you kind sir.

would be the implication.why is it so prevalent if there is no survival\reproductive benefit?(sorry to be so late responding but notifications not working on this thread)

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

the emphasis is slightly different - in that topic the question is mone on how religion could have evolved (interesting in it's own right)this is more on why it persists: the trait must have some survival\reproductive benefit for it to persist.

I think you are close on this. it reduces the value of self compared to the value of the {group\blessed\chosen} with a promised reward after death.but excessive reckless disregard would also be counterproductive.what is the check\balance?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I think you have a good concept on why it began, but the persistance is a different issue.

this might be linked to the co-evolution of religion as a by-product of reproductive display activity.one of the theories of religious evolution is that it is a by-product of the sexually selected abilities of song and dance courtship displays, and all one has to do is connect that to the rituals with song and dance for relgions and with their use by "primitive" tribes before inter-tribal warfare.but is causing war and strife beneficial to the species?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

one also needs to distinguish between survival selection and breeding selection.the point is to survive to breed, thus both are critical, and survival without ability, resources or reward to breed is the same result as death, but sexual selection causes entirely different features to be selected than survival: compare "members" between humans and other apes ....

I've known some laid-back guitar players ... but this is sexual selection in operation. It may be linked to religious behavior (co-evolved trait?)but why does religion persist in this day and age? it must have some survival or reproductive benefit.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

but my e-mail notification on this thread has not been working, and this one fell in the cracks.the question is {{what is the advantage today of religion such that it continues to persist in all societies in one form or another?}}enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

and welcome to the fray.I will break this into two responses to keep one on topic ...first the off-topic side thread: I think you are missing an obvious first step of assigning the vagaries of life’s experiences to spirits: all the early religions are pantheistic, with different spirits personifying different aspects, from the god of thunder (thor) to the jester (loki), we see similar themes in different such religions ("raven" is the north-american loki).Later these evolve so that one become the head cheese, and then the only cheese (and one has to believe in cheeses .... {{okay, I had to get that pun out of my system ...}} )All religions have evolved from earlier versions, and the earliest are lost in the mists of time — the mother-goddess figures (used as an avatar here by one of the admins) is one such, but there are also fertility figures from the regions where Hinduism developed that are nothing more than 10 foot tall phallic posts ... There is also some evidence in the {evolutionary psychology} field that (early) religions need a psychotic (bipolar\schizoid) type to seed the formation, as well as those willing to take advantage of such for their purposes (think oracles and priests).See Political and Social Science for more on this thinking. I had another site, but the link is no longer working .Go on to my other reply for the issue on topic ... ( I have edited this to provide the link -- it is http://EvC Forum: Transitional Forms)Enjoy.This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-01-2005 18:50 AM

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Picking up where my other reply (click) left off ... with a response for the on topic part: I don’t think your car analogy works that well, at least not for explaining the ability of atheists to operate at the same level or better (less distracted?) in the matter of understanding the universe.Perhaps it is (originally) more like mental training \ rehearsal of response to predictable situations so that when they occur the solution doesn’t have to be re-invented. Certainly all the major religions also have many anecdotes, the stories of battles won and lost and the trials set for hero’s to {attempt\prevail} in addition to the mythological tales of supernatural abilities (such as how Odin got his wisdom and the trade he made for his all-seeing vision).Thus it fills a need to provide a basic behavior training for a social species in addition to the let’s all work from the same manual in making this car work aspect.This {benefit\operation} means that any other system that provides the same {benefit\operation} would replace it in a social structure. Thus public education systems are a threat to religions, and more educated people are less religious? That would be a testable hypothesis, eh? The same manual aspect mentioned above. Agreed. But again, any alternative, such as a cohesive political party affiliation could also accomplish the same benefit: a fully democratic society dedicated to the values of the country as written in their constitution, for instance. Certainly people that believe in a better afterlife are not afraid to die for a cause, but how does that work today? This is more in the line of how it developed, rather than the current {survival\reproductive} benefit in modern society: religion must still be a motivating force in society for it to survive as a feature of society without atrophying. Yes, personal beliefs are irrelevant to the question. Thanks for your input. Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

ah the mother goddess watches over all ....

hmmm, so that would make you an absolutist nihilist?what about an apatheist -- someone who doesn't know and doesn't care?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

but I know a couple of apatheists -- they don't fit in either the absolute deity or the nihilist camp. that is my point.but this is wandering off topic: what is the current advantage to religion(s) that allow them to persist?