Easy, given a large enough tree. You'd could just make wide dark rings 1, and narrow dark rings 0. Then you could encode anything you like. Of course, then you're adding an abstraction layer...

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	Message 96 by Fred Williams, posted 09-04-2003 1:23 PM		Fred Williams has replied

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	Message 109 by Fred Williams, posted 09-05-2003 5:44 PM	crashfrog has replied

crashfrog

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Posts: 19762

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Message 104 of 262 (53977)
09-05-2003 4:15 AM

Reply to: Message 102 by dillan
09-04-2003 11:15 PM

Re: Replies...

He states in his book that information only comes from information, and that its' ultimate origin is a mental source. He says in his article,

"Theorem 10: Each item of information needs, if it is traced back to the beginning of the transmission chain, a mental source (transmitter)."

That means that if you trace back every DNA transcprition and translation all the way back to the beginning of life you would find that it is the result of intelligence.

Yes, but if you're looking at DNA, and you see information or a message, isn't it possible that the mental source of that information is your own mind, not God's?

I mean, I've seen clouds that appeared to have information, like the shape of a rabbit or Abraham Lincoln. But nobody designed the cloud to look like that. The data came from my mind, not anyone else's.

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crashfrog

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Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

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Message 111 of 262 (54069)
09-05-2003 5:55 PM

Reply to: Message 109 by Fred Williams
09-05-2003 5:44 PM

How?

I don't know, you said I could manipulate the tree. Well, what you could do would be expose the tree to varying growth conditions during it's lifetime so that the rings turned out in the pattern you wanted. The rings would then be both a record of that growing cycle and a blueprint for your computer.

However the throughput here is going to be terrible; 1 bit per year.

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crashfrog

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Posts: 19762

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Message 118 of 262 (54094)
09-05-2003 7:23 PM

Reply to: Message 114 by Fred Williams
09-05-2003 6:52 PM

Tree rings are not a code unless you manipulate the tree to follow some pattern that you decide the syntax and meaning for.

No, it becomes a code that encodes a blueprint for a computer when I apply my intelligence to it.

It was always a code. Prior to my action it coded data about growth conditions during the tree's life. I just made it code for something else.

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crashfrog

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Posts: 19762

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Message 119 of 262 (54096)
09-05-2003 7:26 PM

Reply to: Message 115 by Fred Williams
09-05-2003 7:01 PM

Re: Tree++

In a nutshell, a code is a set of symbols with syntax and meaning that can be used to produce a blueprint to build something.

Then by your own definition, DNA isn't a code. DNA has no "meaning".

Your dictionary game is simply equivocation on the word "code".

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crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

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Message 120 of 262 (54097)
09-05-2003 7:27 PM

Reply to: Message 115 by Fred Williams
09-05-2003 7:01 PM

Re: Tree++

dupe post deleted.

[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 09-05-2003]

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crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 121 of 262 (54099)
09-05-2003 7:30 PM

Reply to: Message 117 by Fred Williams
09-05-2003 7:16 PM

According to Mark, this is a fallacy.

You miss the point. Mark's calling you on the carpet for equivocating on the word "code" and assuming what you want to prove - that all codes are the product of intelligence. After all, I could just as easily make a proof by contradiction:

1) All codes are the product of intelligence.
2) DNA is a code.
3) DNA is not the product of intelligence.
4) Therefore some codes are not the product of intelligence.

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