Video of Iraqi Insurgent being interogatted

Let me correct a few of your apologies. Everyone lied. Including the UN and the Clinton Administration.Gonna hold their feet to the fire? It did. We won against Saddam's forces. We are now in an insurgency. Look up the definition. You can't even get into theater without body armor, so this is false. ROFL!!! There's a grieving mother there!Oh, and what has this administration done to silence her? Last I saw, she was the most mentioned person in the Media.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

They don't need to do anything as long as they have friends like you who are willing to post photoshopped slanders, now do they?

Tal writes me:

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Everyone lied. Including the UN and the Clinton Administration.

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True enough, and you and I might find some degree of agreement if we were to review the Clinton administration and the history of the UN. But that isn't the subject at hand, and as far as Clinton was concerned I believe he did suffer a blot on his escutcheon, if nothing else. No such fate seems to await Bush, but there is a crucial difference in the lies of the one and the lies of the other. The lies of only one of them were used to start a war.Hell, even Martha Stewart lied. But wait, oh yeah, she had to pay for those lies, didn't she? She even went to prison. And how many deaths have resulted from her lies?

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It did. We won against Saddam's forces. We are now in an insurgency.

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And who says this war is nothing like Vietnam? By your reckoning, we won that, too.

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You can't even get into theater without body armor, so this is false.

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No need for armoured vehicles, then? We're supposed to be shocked by this? She's probably right. I'm not sure that would be our best policy, but the fact that she said it certainly doesn't justify the smear campaign that's been launched against her.I realize that a number of left-wing groups are supporting her. You people should feel free to attack those groups with all you've got. But Cindy Sheehan is a grieving mother, and where I come from you don't ridicule a grieving mother. You wouldn't do it to Beth Holloway Twitty and you wouldn't do it to Cindy Sheehan. You don't understand one goddamned thing that woman is going through and you have absolutely no right to judge her.Attack moveon.org all you want. Leave Cindy the hell alone. I see you're from Kentucky, but you sir are no Southern gentleman!

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

It is nothing like Vietnam. You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want to have. And yes, they've upgraded 99% of the vehicles in operation over there with armor. No she isn't. She's a political activist that is pissing on her son's grave.Let's see what she was saying back in April before her son died. Yep..that's a grieving mother. Bullcrap. She can't use her son's death to promote her political activism and then expect to be shielded from rebutalls because she is a grieving mother. She doesn't get a pass and can't have it both ways.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Slander is oral, libel is written, so it would be libel, except it isn't libel because her quote is accurate.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

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She can't use her son's death to promote her political activism and then expect to be shielded from rebutalls because she is a grieving mother.

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Does this go for all grieving mothers who are politically active for some cause, or only those who are active against your causes?

If you are going to quote Rumsfield you ought to at least acknowledge it.

Tal writes me:

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No she isn't.

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And how exactly would you know this? Anyone who doesn't agree with the administration's conduct of this war cannot grieve, is that it? What does a mother have to do to grieve legitimately? Wear a long black dress and a veil? Must she remain at home all day? Must she abandon her friends as well as her politics? Only by donning a facade of sycophancy to the wingnuts whose policies killed her son can she be considered a genuine grieving mother?Does your god let you pass judgement on just anyone, or only on those who don't share your narrow-minded lunacy?

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

I was talking about the photoshopped picture. Cindy didn't post that, you did. Anyway, I see nothing wrong with the quote. It may be a bit of an overstatement, but it has some truth in it.edit: And by the way, your caption is offensive and really doesn't belong on this discussion thread. Just because this is the Coffee House doesn't mean anything goes.This message has been edited by deerbreh, 08-23-2005 11:00 AM

Hi, berberry.Maybe you should find a picture of a woman who has lost her son in Iraq but who has been politically active in supporting the war. You can photoshop her image too, maybe put her in a Nazi uniform and give her a Hitler mustache. You can then say that by supporting an unnecessary war in which her son was killed, she is pissing on her son's grave.Yeah, I know it goes against your southern gentlemanly sense of chivalry, but Tal says that it's okay to do this sort of thing.

Chiroptera writes me:

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Yeah, I know it goes against your southern gentlemanly sense of chivalry...

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Thank you for the kind words, but I should hope that no one but Tal and other neocons would do such a thing as you suggest. It's okay to talk about it in the abstract - especially since we aren't the ones who brought such things up to begin with - but let's not try to out-Tal Tal in this situation. Let him wallow in the gutter by himself.

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

Hi, berberry.Of course I wasn't serious. I made the suggestion to test Tal's reaction. I wonder whether he would be shocked by it; it wouldn't surprise me if he never considered the possibility that the other side could engage in the same tactics with the same legitimacy.One thing that I have noticed is that conservatives seem unable to imagine themselves in the other person's position, or to imagine what other people may feel about what they say or do.

So, can you adress her points? Or are you just going to ASSERT that she is wrong?

I don’t see Beth Twitty’s diatribes appearing daily on MichaelMore.com. I don’t see her throwing the kind of unfounded bombshells that Sheehan is throwing under the shield of a grieving mom.Here are just a few more of Sheehan’s comments: Now lets examine who is lying by looking at the two faces of Sheehan: The first account is her initial statements after meeting with Bush; Now there is a different account regarding the same meeting: If Sheehan were simply a grieving mother who let MoveOn.org speak for her then yes, there would be no justification for criticizing her. But she is a liar as shown through the two divergent accounts of her meeting with Bush. And these comments are just the tip of the iceberg for what is becoming a voluminous list of acerbic rhetoric by Sheehan.I don’t much care for the untrue smear tactics against her, but she asked for it. When she puts out public statements like these, it is absolutely fair to counter her lies and exaggerations. She wants publicity, fine, then she must stand up to public scrutiny, especially when her statements are so far off the deep end. Although she is still greiving, it seems to me her top priority now is to seek her fortunes as a political activist. If she wants to continue with her new found career, she needs a thicker skin.

It seems to me people are missing the bigger point about this woman. I don't think shes supposed to be 100% correct. People hang on her words and quote mine her as if she's supposed to be some sort of politician or something. She dosn't write policy, she's mad, and is protesting.Personaly I think she has every right to, and her broader points are valid. As to her lying, I think that is too harsh. On interviews I have heard with her she's pretty clear on the fact that she has had a change of heart, further, back when she talked to bush, it's kinda hard to walk out of the Oval office and give bad PR right there.I dunno. I think people are being to hard on her, she's just an avarege person like me and you, and what she is doing is making her no money. Leave her alone, if you don't like what she's saying don't listen. But the fact that so many people are rising up and slinging mud at her is a testament to the fact that shes not the only one needing "thick skin".