The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?

We asked the thread, "What do you want?"Thread replied, "I want to die."‐--------I'm sticking with the universe created Jesus. Maybe.

Rahwin, you wrote:If you had "proof" you would present it, and you would not
require faith.***God is not trying to save humanity during this present
age. And, this can be really difficult for the majority to
believe in God, much less to have faith in Him.Whenever I feel even slightly discouraged, l think of the
Apostle Paul and all that He went through.But he
perserved..He said that He fought the good fight, and that he had a
crown of righteousness waiting for him.I want what he wanted. I want it with all my heart. And, I will
never will back off.I don't know what happened between you and God, but
do not allow pride to stand in your way. Humility is a
very great trait to develop.

That's an Omni answer! I would rather see you guys being honest than convincing (or conned). God, if God exists will use many attempts to reach you. (Yes, it's my belief) No one will ever be able to say that they never knew or had a chance. Acceptance is free will as is rejection.

You could say similar things about any other fictional character. It's all just nonsense if you're trying to convince someone of anything. Thats like saying that you don't know what happened between me and Santa Claus.Nothing happened "between" me and god, because there is no such thing as a god. Just as nothing happened between you and the tooth fairy, or santa claus, or the monster that lived under your bed.I simply realized that I had no factual basis for my belief...and that was enough to make me no longer be convinced. It's wasn't as abrupt as that sounds, but that's the heart of what happened.I value rationality and critical thinking. None of us have perfectly accurate knowledge of the world we live in - far from it. We all have a "map" in our brains of how the world is. Those maps affect how we interact with the world - if I believe a car is coming, I'll wait before I cross the street. If I don't believe a car is coming, I might cross right away. Because our "maps" affect how we interact witht he world, I want my "map" to accurately reflect the true territory of the real world as closely as possible. There are methods we can use to improve the accuracy and precision of our maps, and I try to use those.And when I find something on my map that doesn;t actually seem to exist in the real world...I erase it from my map, and stop believing that it's there.If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.
If there is not a god, I do not want to believe that there is a god.The rest is logic and objective evidence.If anyone ever wants to convince me of anything about the real world, all that's necessary is objective evidence and a logically consistent argument.None of that so far exists for any permutation of god(s).

Funny, I was just thinking about this as I read Rahvin's post below Message 394.When I realized I didn't believe in God anymore, I remember thinking, "if it exists and cares if I believe, it will say so." And then I carried on with my life studying thing that interest me.This is supposed to be an entity capable of creating a planet and hearing all my thoughts, but it cannot communicate other than by imitating natural phenomena (give me a sign), really?Oh look, that cloud's giving me the finger, must be a sign from God. Nothing is too silly to convince you believers.If it wants acknowledgement from me it will have to try harder. It will take hard, irrefutable evidence, not faith in vague signs.

Consider how distant and indirect is the evidence for dark energy. Even that sort of evidence for God would be overwhelming, but he can't even put a high red-shift object in our own galaxy, bury a panda in the Permian, or embed ¹⁴C in the Cretaceous, let alone raise the dead or regrow limbs. If he does anything at all his acts are indistinguishable from the physical laws of nature.--Percy

How do Dragonflies "communicate with you besides the objective evidence that you see?
This reminds me of a scripture. I want to emphasize that I do not want to believe in a God of wrath, nor do I believe that humans deserve to be treated like the Palestinians of Gaza or the Ukrainians under assault from Russia. You will hear a lot of doom-and-gloom sermons and preaching over the next few years, and it will reinforce your observations concerning Biblical Christians and their hypocrisy. I believe that much of the wrath of God will be directed more at the church and the state of Israel than it will towards non-believers. To purify a jewel or precious material, great heat is often required.Look, I don't want the world we live in to get worse and worse any more than any of you do. And to be fair, I'm not trying to get you to believe as I believe. All I am trying to do is share my perspective(s) at this forum that I have been a member of since 2003. My blood sugars are down lately and I have not gambled for several months. I still believe that really tough times are ahead for humanity, but I trust that it is a necessary part of the purification process. The Gold that I am talking about in this instance is each one of you. Each person in this world is unique. Each of us has a story and a history. Each of us thinks differently as well. When calibrating your map, I recommend incorporating data and evidence not just from facts, numbers, and equations but from the people whom you meet daily and who are part of your life. There are many trolls and many con artists, but occasionally you may find a jewel. May we all be jewels to each other rather than rocks.
​​

You're beginning to remind me of Brad McFall.--Percy

I am getting a chuckle reading some of his posts for the first time. I wonder what happened to him?

He was elected to the House of Representatives.

Really? State or National?AddbyEdit: I highly doubt he was of political mind! Message 12He was not stupid by any means. Just complicated.

Not sure if you were joking or not. There is a Representative Mike McFall from Michigan, elected in 2023. Democrat and openly gay. If you had gotten confused by the last name, that's understandable. I kept hearing talk of some "Brady" guy and the only Brady I could think of was James Brady, Reagan's press secretary who was shot in the head during Hinkley's 1981 assassination attempt and for whom the Brady Bill (Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act) was named.Since the context of that other Brady guy seemed to be sports, I marveled at Brady's recovery from his head wound, especially considering that the last I had seen him he was still confined to a wheelchair.

Boy did you miss that joke!!

The truth really is stranger than faction.

Rahvin, you wrote:"You could say similar things about any other fictional
character. It's all just nonsense if you're trying to convince
someone of anything."***I am not trying to convince you of anything. What you
do or don't believe has no effect on me.But, by the same token, don't try to push the foolish idea
that the universe just happened to come into existence
out of nothing.There is no way that atheists can explain all that we see,
or how it came to be. There should be nothing, and a
reasonable individual, who is not blinded by his world view
knows this.I don't mean this to be offensive, but I am fully convinced
that everyone knows that God exists. Many just refuse to
accept this fact.Paul clearly understood this. In Romans 1:18-20."For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress
the truth in unrighteousness,because what may be known of God is manifest (made
clear) in them, for God has shown it to them.For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes
are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they
are without excuse."Everyone knows that the Creator exists; many simply refuse
to acknowledge Him.Paul in verse 22 states, "Professing themselves to be
wise, they became fools.It takes much more faith to be an atheist than it does to
believe in God.If God does not exist (which He does) Christians died
having hope. On the others hand, if God does exist
(which He does) those who deny Him have a problem,
and a big one.The Bible is quite clear in that every knee will will bow
to Jesus. I will do it because I love Him. You will do it
because you won't have a choice.I do not believe that the Bible teaches unrepentant
sinners will burn in flames for eternity. He is not that
kind of God. He does not force anyone to love Him.However, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
when they witness what they will miss out on.They will be put to death for all eternity, while others
will become sons of God spirit beings, who will never
die.