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Author | Topic: God & the Fairy Tree | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You still have not said anything.
There are many claims and so far you have offered no support for any of them. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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pbee Member (Idle past 6057 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
Prove that we were created. Prove that we are not the result of completely natural causes. No one is denying anything yet - you haven't provided any evidence for us to deny.
The onus is not on me to prove anything. I can assert my own position to the initial claim that God created all things, but beyond that, the claim was stated and the evidence has been accounted for.
You're dodging the question again. You still have not supported your claim.
As frustrations mount under the strain of this argument, it should be noted that "some of us" will struggle with the implications. While I did raise the subject, I did not write the claim, nor did I ever take the responsibility for it. However, the claim was made, and the evidence is accounted for. And I stress, it is... what it is, and despite our best efforts we remain unable to transform it. It is sheer arrogance which drives us to the edge of such problems. In the past, great minds, people of fame, which have laid the foundations of science have struggled with this very same statement. Don't feel bad or battered over this, you are not alone. We can openly reject the claim without challenging it. I doubt this would amount to a resolution but it does remain an option nonetheless.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by pbee, : typos Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I can assert my own position to the initial claim that God created all things, but beyond that, the claim was stated and the evidence has been accounted for. What evidence? So far you have presented NO evidence for the claim. How many times must that be pointed out? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
The onus is not on me to prove anything. I can assert my own position to the initial claim that God created all things, but beyond that, the claim was stated and the evidence has been accounted for. Wrong. The onus to support a claim is ALWAYS on the person making the claim. You assert the universe was created. Support your assertion or concede. Stating that the universe exists is NOT evidence it was created. If you claim the Bible as evidence it was created by the Abrahamic God, tell us why the Bible is correct and other, older ancient religious texts are incorrect, as they are mutually exclusive.
As frustrations mount under the strain of this argument, it should be noted that "some of us" we are unable to resolve the implications of the claim. While I did raise the subject, I did not write the claim, nor did I ever take the responsibility for it. However, the claim was made, and the evidence is accounted for. And I stress, it is, what it is, and despite our best attempts, unable to transform it. You have, in fact, asserted that the universe was created. By mentioning it here, you do in fact take responsibility for providing the evidence to support it. The evidence has NOT been accounted for - you have given nothing but circular reasoning, and have been shown this repeatedly by multiple posters. Frustrations are not mounting over this argument, pbee - people are simply growing very tired of repeating themselves to you.
It is sheer arrogance which drives us to the edge of such problems. In the past, great minds, people of fame, which have laid the foundations of science have struggled with this very same statement. Don't feel bad or battered over this, you are not alone. Appeal to authority - a logical fallacy. "Great minds, people of fame" are irrelevant. All that matters are the merits of any argument, regardless of who put the argument forth. And stop with the "don't feel bad" bullshit. None of us are feeling inadequate in any way. Id respond further to the implicit insult of such statements, but I'd rather not be suspended.
We can openly reject the claim without challenging it. I doubt this would amount to a resolution but it does remain an option nonetheless. The claim is rejected because it has been challenged and left undefended by you.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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pbee Member (Idle past 6057 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
Wrong. The onus to support a claim is ALWAYS on the person making the claim.
You are way ahead of yourself with this line of reasoning. The claim was that God created all things. It was found written in a stone tablet. I have "NOT" seen it myself, however I did not write it nor did I make the claim that I created all things in existence... The rest of your post was residual to this statement.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by pbee, : No reason given. Edited by pbee, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
You are way ahead of yourself with this line of reasoning. The claim was that God created all things. It was found written in a stone tablet. I have seen it myself, however I did not write it nor did I make the claim that I created all things in existence... The rest of your post was residual to this statement. First off: what stone tablet? Can you provide a link to information about it? Second: If you bring the claim to a debate, YOU must support it. What you're saying is like an evolutionist saying he doesn't need to support his claims because Darwin made them first. If you're not going to debate, stop posting in a debate forum.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
you guys totally jacked Para's thread
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pbee Member (Idle past 6057 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
First off: what stone tablet? Can you provide a link to information about it?
Just as you replied I saw this typo "I did NOT see it myself, however.... " - it has been repaired now. I stress(again)... I never claimed anything. I pointed out that all things known to us have been claimed by God. This is a well known claim which has been recorded and made available to us throughout history. The debate was never whether or not "I could logically prove" this statement. I would be forced to say I don't truly care. Your right, an evolutionists could support his or her claim to evolution, however he would not be claiming anything beyond having the knowledge and understanding of the process of evolution. There is a substantial difference between the claim to having made all matter and the understanding of what is and how it came to be. Darwin's work is in no way comparable to God's claims on creation as does evolution for that matter. We have spent considerable time swarming about in the cloud of the initial statement. If anyone wants to contest "The Claim" made by God then so be it. I would be more than happy to share my own research to that effect. However, we will not come to any conclusions within the scope of this thread.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by pbee, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
What evidence? So far you have presented NO evidence for the claim. How many times must that be pointed out? I think we have a troll on our hands. It seems to me that pbee is less interested in discussing the matter than in posting nonsense and seeing the responses. Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
I think we have a troll on our hands. It seems to me that pbee is less interested in discussing the matter than in posting nonsense and seeing the responses. Agreed. And, as CS noted, if his intent was to get us to completely derail this thread, we've fallen for it. pbee, our line of discussion is wholly off topic for this thread. If you'd like to discuss your point of view further, I suggest you make a new, more appropriate thread. For my part, I will no longer take part in the off-topic discussion.
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pbee Member (Idle past 6057 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
It seems to me that pbee is less interested in discussing the matter than in posting nonsense and seeing the responses.
I would be very interested in discussing this matter but as I mentioned in my previous post, this specific topic has already gone to far. If you are up to the task, then spawn a new discussion and it could be managed properly.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If several million people equates as rare, then you are correct. Several million people? I hardly think that's the case. Imagine a small town of Christians. Consider one person born and raised in that town, living there all her life, going to church every Sunday. What are the odds that, continuing to live in that town, she'll completely abandon Christianity and become a committed Buddhist for the rest of her life? Pretty low, I should think. One in a million, perhaps.
If we are to conclude that our world is plagued by peer influences, then let us free ourselves and tear down our schools, burn the books and abolish television as well as all other forms of influence. Why?
The reality of it is, that none believers believe that those teaching faith to their children are wrong in doing so. Well, of course not. (They just think its wrong for all the other religions.) But I don't see what that has to do with what we're talking about. Now it seems like you're defending my position - that adopting a religious faith is usually a matter of going along with the crowd.
Comparing fairies to God and faith is about equivalent to comparing a Skateboard to a Bus. I've long felt that God would be better compared to Santa Claus: 1) Creates things2) Long white beard 3) Watches over all persons 4) Knows if you've been good or bad 5) Punishes the wicked, rewards the virtuous 6) Answers requests in written or spoken form 7) Able to visit every home in a single night, or even faster of course, the similarities don't end there - they're both complete make-believe. The only difference between belief in fairies and belief in God is the popularity of the belief. That's not a qualitative difference, it's just a quantitative one.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
What a coincidence! I was just browsing around on jhuger's site (of Kiss Hank's Ass fame), and I found a page that seems directly relevant to the OP.
Cheers. Added by edit:
And another one! Ha ha ha! I'm really not looking for these! Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given. Q: If science doesn't know where this comes from, then couldn't it be God's doing? A: The only difference between that kind of thinking and the stereotype of the savage who thinks the Great White Hunter is a God because he doesn't know how the hunter's cigarette lighter works is that the savage has an excuse for his ignorance. -- jhuger
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
Everyone please get back to the topic.
Please read Message 1 if a refresher is needed. Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread. Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout. Thank you
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Actually, we can never be 100% sure of anything, no matter how much evidence there is. That's what scientists call tentativity.
quote: Sure, me too. But that is not the same as knowing, for sure, that they do not exist.
quote: If you would accept evidence for their existence if it was presented to you, then you are not an athiest regarding their existence, you are agnostic regarding their existence. At least, this is how I understand the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism.
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