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Author Topic:   Mormons
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 76 of 117 (126801)
07-22-2004 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by PecosGeorge
07-22-2004 11:03 PM


I only need those parts that apply to me.
So you're picking out parts of the Qu'ran that support your twisted interpretation and ignoring the rest?
Since I'm sure you hate when people do that with the Bible, why do you think that's an appropriate way to interpret the Qu'ran?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-22-2004 11:03 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-22-2004 11:20 PM crashfrog has replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 77 of 117 (126805)
07-22-2004 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by crashfrog
07-22-2004 11:11 PM


I'm not even a little bit interested in how people interpret the bible, only in what it means to me and what it means to me I come here to share. I am however very interested in what certain peoples are taught from their 'scriptures' that spells injury to me. The suras I posted are explicit, read them. They are not an invitation to tea. Christianity has nothing similar, nothing even close. Christians are not instructed to go and kill everyone not believing the way they do. In fact, Christ's reminder that he has sheep in other flocks, is exquisite.

"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!"
2 Cor. 7:1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 07-22-2004 11:11 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Coragyps, posted 07-22-2004 11:44 PM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 79 by crashfrog, posted 07-22-2004 11:57 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 78 of 117 (126810)
07-22-2004 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by PecosGeorge
07-22-2004 11:20 PM


Christians are not instructed to go and kill everyone not believing the way they do.
But your book damn sure instructs the Chosen People (TM) to kill just about everybody they come across, George! They save a few virgin girls for slaves in a case or two, but the verses say "Go kill 'em all, Joshua!" Dammit, man, open your eyes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-22-2004 11:20 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 9:16 AM Coragyps has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 79 of 117 (126813)
07-22-2004 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by PecosGeorge
07-22-2004 11:20 PM


Christianity has nothing similar, nothing even close.
quote:
Matthew 10:34 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Christians are not instructed to go and kill everyone not believing the way they do.
Oh? Maybe you want to ask the Canaanites about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-22-2004 11:20 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 9:30 AM crashfrog has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 80 of 117 (126852)
07-23-2004 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Mike_King
07-22-2004 7:23 PM


Re: Christ
Matt 22: 43-46. Jesus said he is the 'Son', not just of David, but from a source that made him David's lord eand that this had been so even when David uttered the words of Psalm 110
jesus asks the pharisees whose son christ is. by christ he's talking about the messiah. he is not directly talking about himself, and saying he's the messiah. notice that the pharisees respond, saying he's ben dabid. they're not saying that jesus is of the family of david, they're saying the messiah they are expecting is.
the messiah david is speaking of in psalm 110 is probably not jesus. let's read.
quote:
Psalm 110:
1. [[A Psalm of David.] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3. Thy people [shall be] willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5. The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6. He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill [the places] with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7. He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
have a good look at verses 5 and 6. did jesus do that?
Jsus the Messiah is decribed with divinity inthe old Testament
Isiah 7:14 and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us)
Isiah 9 : 6 He will be called wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God..
well, first of all, "god with us" in a name doesn't mean anything at all. traditionally, a lot of people in the old testament were named with things that gave people a message about god. a name saying that god is with us, and has not forgotten about us, is not the same as saying someone IS god. the only way to do that would be to name the child yhvh, which would be strictly forbidden.
second, isaiah is not talking about jesus. immanuel was the name of a prophesied messiah to save the hebrews from the assyrians. he would have been a military leader (as the rest of that chapter asserts) and his name would actually have been immanuel. not jesus. immanuel. jesus is called this once in matthew, and it's the only two places the name appears in the bible. it appears the author of matthew had read parts of isaiah, seeing as how he quotes it as out of context as you just did.
Philemon 2:6 Jesus was.. in the form of God..
philemon only has one chapter. let's check philippians.
quote:
Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
etc.
things people write about jesus are nice and all. but being charged with a sin, how responsible is it to point to the next guy and go "he did it too!" you know, the bible doesn't get 4 chapters in before it deals with that.
Mark 14 : 62 Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?
62 I am, said Jesus. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.
the son of god is not the same as god. adam was the son of god. david was the son of god. we are all sons of god in some respect, all being members and products of his creation.
notice also he says at the right hand of the mighty one? not in the place of. not the same as. next to, and below. different gospels tell this story a little differently. matthew and luke both having saying "you say that i am" and then saying that. it almost sounds like "you're the one who's putting me there, not me"
again, he doesn't call himself god, and he doesn't even call himself the son of god. he calls himself the son of man.
I AM to this answer is using God's name YHWH
speaking god's name aloud, unless for teaching purposes his blasphemy. writting god's name, unless for teaching purposes, or in copying the torah, is blasphemy. do you think christ did either of these things?
if he actually said "i am" which is doubtful at best, he said it in aramaic. god's "name" is hebrew for "that which exists," which often gets told as "i am." hebrew and aramaic are different languages. "i am" is used a number of times in the christian bible. how many imply god's name?
jesus was answering a question. he said, at the very most, that he was the son of god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Mike_King, posted 07-22-2004 7:23 PM Mike_King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-23-2004 1:11 PM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 97 by Mike_King, posted 07-23-2004 6:51 PM arachnophilia has replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 81 of 117 (126930)
07-23-2004 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Coragyps
07-22-2004 11:44 PM


Just about everybody?
If you are referring to the extermination of the eight tribes of Canaan, then you should know why the chosen were told to do so.
The koran does not apply to me, except where it says that those who believe it should kill me, that applies to me.

"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!"
2 Cor. 7:1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Coragyps, posted 07-22-2004 11:44 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Coragyps, posted 07-23-2004 9:36 AM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 115 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-28-2004 2:26 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 82 of 117 (126936)
07-23-2004 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by crashfrog
07-22-2004 11:57 PM


man you are nuts. anything, say anything just to be counter and throw a wedge. thoughless diatribe without concern for how you are perceived. Ignorant of the depths you must travel to understand the depths to be achieved to understand the ramifications of the word of God and its results. Go take a shit in the middle of the street. You are clearly able to handle that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by crashfrog, posted 07-22-2004 11:57 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Coragyps, posted 07-23-2004 9:38 AM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 92 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2004 5:43 PM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 94 by AdminNosy, posted 07-23-2004 5:47 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 83 of 117 (126940)
07-23-2004 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by PecosGeorge
07-23-2004 9:16 AM


I know exactly "why the chosen were told to do so" - a fictional massacre of the occupants of the land you took sounds kind of mean until you dress it up with a little moral authority. (A real massacre, like the US visited on the Indians, is even worse, despite the dressing up we used to give it.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 9:16 AM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 12:40 PM Coragyps has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 84 of 117 (126942)
07-23-2004 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by PecosGeorge
07-23-2004 9:30 AM


Go take a shit in the middle of the street.
You left your sig about "filthiness" off....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 9:30 AM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 11:48 AM Coragyps has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 85 of 117 (126964)
07-23-2004 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Coragyps
07-23-2004 9:38 AM


oops

"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!"
2 Cor. 7:1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Coragyps, posted 07-23-2004 9:38 AM Coragyps has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 86 of 117 (126976)
07-23-2004 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Coragyps
07-23-2004 9:36 AM


and you immediately opened your bible and read from the beginning, let's say Abraham, and followed the trail to that very moment the Canaanites became marked. Yes?
Don't do it. You are confused enough.

"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!"
2 Cor. 7:1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Coragyps, posted 07-23-2004 9:36 AM Coragyps has not replied

Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 780 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 87 of 117 (126986)
07-23-2004 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by arachnophilia
07-23-2004 2:06 AM


Re: Christ
jesus asks the pharisees whose son christ is. by christ he's talking about the messiah. he is not directly talking about himself, and saying he's the messiah.
I wonder why... maybe its because people tend to think you're nuts when you go around talking about yourself as "the Christ". He wanted them to answer objectively, which they would not do if he referred to himself first as the Christ.
they're not saying that jesus is of the family of david, they're saying the messiah they are expecting is.
And Jesus WAS of the family of David.
have a good look at verses 5 and 6. did jesus do that?
Operation footstool is the 2nd coming of Christ. At the end of the Tribulation Christ will fulfill all of these things.
Isiah 9 : 6 He will be called wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God..
This one is DEFINATELY talking about Christ's 2nd coming: Operation footstool. God will put all his enemies under his feet and then Christ will literally rule for 1000 years. The "government will be on his shoulders."
things people write about jesus are nice and all. but being charged with a sin, how responsible is it to point to the next guy and go "he did it too!" you know, the bible doesn't get 4 chapters in before it deals with that.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
again, he doesn't call himself god, and he doesn't even call himself the son of god. he calls himself the son of man.
Sigh... I never thought it was possible to so distort the scriptures as to remove Christ's divinity from him, but I guess in your mind you have done so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2004 2:06 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2960 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 88 of 117 (127002)
07-23-2004 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Hangdawg13
07-23-2004 1:11 PM


Re: Christ
And Jesus WAS of the family of David
I apologize for furthering this off-topic tendency, but how can Jesus be of the family of David if both Matthew and Luke's geneologies (geneologies = Mormons, we're still on topic here ) trace his lineage to Joseph who is NOT Jesus' father? This may sound ignorant to a Bible scholar, but it has always bothered me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-23-2004 1:11 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 2:03 PM Lithodid-Man has replied
 Message 99 by arachnophilia, posted 07-24-2004 2:17 AM Lithodid-Man has replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 89 of 117 (127006)
07-23-2004 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Lithodid-Man
07-23-2004 1:51 PM


Re: Christ
Lineage is determined through the mother. Joseph, however, was also a descendant of David. Read the begats in Matthew 1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Lithodid-Man, posted 07-23-2004 1:51 PM Lithodid-Man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Lithodid-Man, posted 07-23-2004 2:19 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2960 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 90 of 117 (127011)
07-23-2004 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by PecosGeorge
07-23-2004 2:03 PM


Re: Christ
Please again forgive my ignorance, but I am unable to find the lineage of Mary in matthew or elsewhere. Could you please point me to where that is. Thanks for your patience!

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." Aaron Levenstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-23-2004 2:03 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 07-23-2004 2:42 PM Lithodid-Man has not replied
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