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Author Topic:   Creationists:: What would convince you that evolution has happened ?
William E. Harris
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 385 (13487)
07-13-2002 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Peter
02-20-2002 8:01 AM


What would it take to convince you that intelligent creation has happened?
Scientific Evidence of God
In an article called, Beyond Physics (Scientific American, Aug. 1998, page 20), renowned scientists contemplated the evidence for God. Allan R. Sandage, one of the father’s of modern astronomy, asked several hundred scientists and theologians if there were sufficient evidence to support a belief in a Jedeo-Christian god.
Many of the scientists had as belief in a supreme being but could not support their belief with scientific evidence. About two dozen, nearly all at the top of their fields, arrived at a different conclusion.
George Ellis, a cosmologist said, There is a huge amount of data supporting the existence of God. The question is how to evaluate it. Item one on his list was the so-called Anthropic Principle. This principle has to do with the extreme unlikelihood for all the fundamental constants of nature to be so precisely balanced by accident. Without this very precise balance, galaxies and life could not exist. Astronomer John D. Barrows asked, One possible explanation they give is that the universe was designed.
Mitchell P. Marcus, chairman of computer science at the University of Pennsylvania said, In mathematics and information theory, we can now guarantee that there are truths out there that we cannot find. The inability of science de to provide a basis for meaning, purpose, value and ethics is evidence of the necessity of religion Sandage adds, The reasons for the existence of the universe, the existence of any physical laws at all and the nature of the physical laws that do hold--science takes all of these for granted, and so cannot investigate them.
If all things, including man, were part of intelligent design by a supreme being, it seems that man must have a special place in that creation. As Barrows asked, How is it that humans’ cognitive abilities greatly exceed the demands imposed by evolutionary pressures, so that we can perceive the quantum nature of the universe and map its cosmic features: And why is mathematics so surprisingly effective at describing the physical world?
Einstein stated, Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
I therefore make the following conjectures which can only be supported by indirect evidence:
1. God and man are of the same species and we are his spiritual offspring.
I will begin the indirect evidence support with NDEs (near death experiences). The best reference I can give you is the book Fingerprints of God by Arvin Gibson, Horizon Press,Bountiful, Utah, 1999. This is a book written by a scientific professional and has analyzed dozens of NDEs. Gibson correctly asserts that studying NDEs can be done with scientific methodology, you just have to pick those who claim NDEs as your test subjects. There is a large amount of out-of-body experiences of events occurring that can not be explained otherwise and correlates with other NDEs. He is interested to get comments on his ideas from forum readers. If I cannot get him to join the forum, I will submit some of his findings.
2. Indirect evidence of God (I may comment on later after I get a string going on item #1 above.)
The Anthropic Principle (coined by Brandon Carter), the complexity of design motif that many forum members have addressed, the bible as history, and grand design logic.
William WmEHa@cs.com
Can anyone out there help me set up a web site?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Peter, posted 02-20-2002 8:01 AM Peter has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by gene90, posted 07-13-2002 11:48 PM William E. Harris has not replied
 Message 258 by John, posted 07-14-2002 12:27 AM William E. Harris has not replied
 Message 259 by TrueCreation, posted 07-14-2002 4:10 PM William E. Harris has not replied

William E. Harris
Inactive Member


Message 260 of 385 (13538)
07-15-2002 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Peter
02-20-2002 10:22 AM


Hi! Just a comment on where I stand. I believe in creation and evolution. I believe that, except for speciation, most evolutionary advances were done by genetic engineering under the direction of God. (We seem to skirt around using the word God for intelligent creation.) But I believe that the spirits of each man or woman are offspring of a God and therefore were not created by the evolutionary path that all flora and fauna followed. In fact, I will go a step further and if you can accept the previous statement, perhaps you could imagine that God's children were the genetic engineers working under his direction. When we get tired of working on the farm, we quit and "called it a day." I would not get too stuck on using a "day" or 6000 years as the age of the earth. If you believe God created the earth, do you suppose he placed fossil superposition, radioactive dating and the many other tool discovered by scientists just to fool them with all their efforts to understand his creations?
I can expand on all of these ideas if you wish, but it is philosophy and not hard science. Sincerely, William

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Peter, posted 02-20-2002 10:22 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Peter, posted 07-15-2002 3:22 AM William E. Harris has not replied
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