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Author Topic:   Should we be De-Evolving?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 5 of 59 (157341)
11-08-2004 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by gman
11-08-2004 1:54 PM


Making the following assumptions, does this imply that humanity, as a whole, is slowly de-evolving?
No, because there's no such thing as "devolution"; evolution doesn't proceed towards a goal or in any kind of direction.
As for natural selection, unfortunately, it's still at work for most of the human population. For us lucky few in the industrial world, the only selection we're likely to experience is sexual selection.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 59 (161318)
11-18-2004 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:00 PM


Amazing misundertandings about the animal world
Animals don't rape or murder without reason
Yeah they do. Rape is commonplace in the animal world; some species more than others. Infanticide is common, too.
they don't eat more than they need
Almost every animal will eat what is made avaliable to it. Obese pets are common. Wild animals don't tend to be fat because fat animals tend to get chased down and killed.
they aren't homosexual, etc.
We've observed hmosexuality in hundreds of different animal species. There's a pair of gay penguin parents in the San Diego zoo; two males who mate with each other and are raising a chick from an abandoned egg.
Welcome to EvC, congratulations on your first post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:00 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:21 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 59 (161322)
11-18-2004 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Loudmouth
11-09-2004 3:35 PM


Just to clarify
Actually, it is 4-50 MUTATIONS per generation, not 4-50 new genes. Most of these mutations will not affect the offspring since most will be neutral mutations occuring in junk DNA, duplicated genes, introns, or in the third base of a codon.
"Synonymous substitutions" was the term I used, and the figure was for mammalian nuclear DNA, from my wife's textbook on molecular phylogenetics. I believe it was about 3.5 per billion base pairs.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 21 of 59 (161338)
11-18-2004 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:21 PM


Re: Amazing misundertandings about the animal world
House pets have almost no natural instincts
That's simply not true. House pets have exactly the same instincts as wild animals. They don't, however, have the same trained behavior.
In the wild, they eat all they need when they can, but they don't just sit around eating for no reason like humans.
Animals in the wild will eat all that is avaliable to them. It's a survival trait, because an organism never knows if it's ever going to eat again. Humans have the same exact instinct - we eat more, way more, when more is put in front of us.
The 'rape' is not intended in the human way.
I meant it as "sexual activity against the consent of the victim." That's the same meaning in humans as in animals.
I have never heard that before, but it's probley because they are in captivity.
It's been seen in the wild, too, among certain primates.
Does one perhaps have a genetic defect? Perhaps female genes and male genetalia?
Oh, right. Because the only reason an organism might be gay is because they're a female trapped in a male's body.
Grow up. What an immature sexual attitude.
You can have one without the other so don't dismiss me as an ignorant 14 year old, please.
I had no idea how old you were until this very moment, when you just told me. I'm not correcting you because you're young. I'm correcting you because you're wrong. The only reason I would dismiss you as ignorant would be because you are ignorant. There's no shame in ignorance. But there is much to be ashamed of if one is too proud or confident to listen to those who are trying to rectify one's ignorance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:21 PM TheClashFan has replied

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 Message 22 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:56 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 59 (161536)
11-19-2004 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:56 PM


I have no objection to homosexuals as people, I'm friends with a few, but it is wrong to my belief.
And that's fine, I guess.
But it kind of weakens your central thesis, doesn't it? That humans are definately devolving because we do worse things than animals do? I mean, I'm pretty much proven that not only do animals do the same things we do, they do them for most of the same reasons we do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:56 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 9:01 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 59 (161722)
11-20-2004 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by TheClashFan
11-19-2004 9:01 PM


I cannot belive that animals rape for power.
I don't know that I believe that humans do, either. The evidence seems to suggest that rapists rape to expand their reproductive opportunity; rapists consistently report experiencing a deficiency between their sex life, no matter how frequent, and how much sex they think they're "supposed" to be having.
It's a complex uestion and I don't know where I stand on it. But I don't think we can simply conclude, without discussion, that men rape for power over women. Without some evidence that's just a convinient excuse.
I cannot belive that animals kill for no reason. Animals supposedly don't reason
If animals don't reason, then everything they do is without reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 9:01 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 12:38 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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