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Author Topic:   Evolution vs Creation
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7607 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 20 of 147 (17032)
09-09-2002 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Fred Williams
09-09-2002 8:20 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Fred Williams:
what is the number one test that would falsify evolution for you?

For me it's simple. Observed creation. In the lab. Complex multicelled organism ab nihilo. Post an example if you will. Crosse's Acari, perhaps? But not well enough documented, and even Crosse did not think they were supernaturally generated. But a clear observation of ex nihilo creation actually occuring would be quite sufficient.
Interestingly, the opposite would not disprove creation. Observation in the lab of evolution over several generations would still not disprove that an omnipotent God had actually created everything in 6 days with the possibility of subsequent evolution built in.
I guess your pet fairy tale is far and away the least falsifiable.
quote:
The truth is, a theory that is set up to explain everything (ie not testable), explains nothing.
Rather like that theory of an infinitely capable, infinitely knowledgable God who can do anything? With this clarification, I can reject creationism with your blessing.
[B][QUOTE]The Creation model, on the other hand, would be falsified by a Darwinian gradualistic fossil record.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not according to Gosse - you should read Omphalos some time. And not according to my relatively minor tweak outlined above. Anyone who can believe in some of the more ludicrous accounts of the global flood would have no problem believing in Creation and Evolution.
Really Fred, try a bit harder. That was pathetic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Fred Williams, posted 09-09-2002 8:20 PM Fred Williams has not replied

  
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7607 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 32 of 147 (17121)
09-10-2002 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Fred Williams
09-10-2002 5:00 PM


[B][QUOTE]Of course I have, and it as bogus now as it was last time you are some other fairytale lover brought it up. It’s a toothless test, because such a discovery would be extremely unlikely. Take another look at the pie chart in my article. Mammalian fossils constitute a miniscule sliver of the fossil record. They are very rare, and most are represented by a bone or less. When one is found, the odds of it being buried with marine invertebrates is astronomically low. But feel free to go ahead and pound your fist that this is a test of evolution![/B][/QUOTE]
So you can point us to examples of modern marine vertebrates found in undisturbed cambrian deposits - or is there some mechanism which ensures that marine vertebrates and invertebates are sorted in the fossil record? Similarly for plants - primitive plants and trees frequently grow on high and dry ground along with recently evolved forms including flowering plants and grasses. Modern forms are found in low lying swampy areas. Yet the fossil record demontrates remarkably clear sorting - no modern forms, no flowering plants found out of sequence. I'm not talking pollen here (before you are tempted by that spurious line) but fossil evidence of the bodies of flowering plants, grasses and modern trees. How utterly ubiquitous they are in the ecology of the world! How absent they are from the early fossil record!
[B][QUOTE]BTW, when plausible examples of out-of-sequence fossils are discovered, they are explained away.[/B][/QUOTE]
Plausible to you perhaps. Explained as frauds, misinterpretations and poor fieldwork, mostly. Anyway, why must you rely on "plausible" for your story? Let's see some "incontrovertible."
[B][QUOTE]So even by some incredible stroke of luck a mammallian fossil was found buried with marine invertebrates, evolutionists would invoke a just-so story of how it got there.[/B][/QUOTE]
As you say, if it was incredible it would not be given credibility: it kinda follows from the definition, doesn't it? Funny how language works that way.[B][QUOTE]I already have many evolutionists admit that finding living dinosaurs would not falsify evolution for them.[/B][/QUOTE]
I should hope so too. A living dinosaur would provide a revised terminus post quem for dinosaur extinction. A mammal fossil in the Cambrian would provide a terminus ante quem for mammal development. As evolution is concerned primarily with the appearance of new forms (the "origin" of species, remember?) then the latter is much more significant.
[B][QUOTE]You guys have a countless number of escape hatches. A theory with more escape hatches than evidence is really no better than a low-grade hypothesis.[/B][/QUOTE]
So your theory is presumably worse still and completely worthless, as creation by an omnipotent, omniscient being can explain any and all conceivable realities. Thanks again for the confirmation that your theory is not worth considering for this reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Fred Williams, posted 09-10-2002 5:00 PM Fred Williams has not replied

  
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