Conversion to atheism

Hi Nightrain: wow a fellow Aussie. I have to say I think there is a lot of merit in your statement. But I would like to add that these squabbles, are largely a result of individual perspective, and personality. For each of us, I personally think the aim should be to seperate faith, from the practicalities of bigotry, that one finds within some religious factions.Shaz

Hi Zawinul:I thought I would offer my perspective to your topic, because I was an atheist. What you hold to be true is not necessarily true for me, i.e. me - that vase is blue, colour blind person - that vase is green, interior decorator - that vase is aqua. Does that mean that any of these statements are not true, accurate, or without flaw?
As for that which can be demonstrated by scientific logic, then yes I certainly think that should be made available to all and sundry regardless of their belief, but optionally not mandatory. Personally I don't believe it is right to try and take anything from someone who needs what they have, no matter how honourable your motive is. If one does it may result in serious health, and welfare ramifications for the individual. (if you need me to cite examples I will, once I have some sleep )Therefore to attempt any conversion of anything, without offering something of equal measure, would lead me to question the motives of the converter. This is an interesting question for me. I was an atheist/agnostic, until I was 24. I did not grow up in a Christian home, nor have any Christian teachings. At 24 though I died, and was resuscitated in the literal sense. From that moment on, I knew there was more. I believed in 'a God' then, which suited me, because I had something to blame for all of the atrocities in the world. No-one tried to convert me, or lead me to Christ, or anything of the kind. When I was 27 though I became a Christian of my own free will.So in relation to your question, the benefits of atheism, I don't necessarily believe there are any. I have the knowledge that atheists have, i.e. inaccuracies in the Bible, hypocritical bible toting people who initiate war. Atheists have to accept full responsibility for their actions, but so too do Christians. Just because I believe in God does not make me any the less accountable for what I do.So in summary, I don't believe, no in fact I will state that I know atheism cannot offer me more. I have been there, and I know first hand that I have more this side of the fence. Mind you I should add I am not your 'classical' Christian. I also have no problem if anyone wants to challenge me on what I have shared, though it is of a personal nature. I do know all about the chemicals in the brain, and delusional concepts, factual things, which for a long time reconciled my experience with my logic. Now I know that logic, is only limited by my ability to be open to knowledge, and experiences. There is so much more, than what we can even begin to comprehend with our human logic.Shaz

Interesting point, and I can understand that 'to know' would seem contradictory to my statement, which I tried to phrase in a way as to not be arrogant. So therefore I will change my statement to:"I have seen, and experienced far more, than many people have been able to even begin to comprehend."So the answer as to how I know? From my experiences, it's what I feel, what I see, what I hear. People I have spoken with, have also stated an inability to even begin to comprehend with their logic.Shaz

Yes Zawinul that is the point that I was trying to make too. Life as we know it is a matter of perception, and I include in that scientific facts. By that I mean, we are ever advancing ever learning, and what is the absolute truth today, may not be tomorrow, as we continue to advance. If my choice was to be ignorant, then scientific matters and the like, would have no bearing as 'truths' to me. So indeed the vase may be blue, but if I choose ignorance, then it could just as easily not exist at all. Perhaps you and me both. I also try to live by the teachings of Christ, and I read somewhere a comment someone made, about a bare foot Christ who preaches love, well that is what I hold to. But I also hold much in the way of other philosophies, teachings, and social science knowledge. So really by not being a classical Christian, I mean that I am an eclectic mix of many things. It would be too hard to classify me, as I am also everchanging, and everevolving. I have to say this made me laugh, if you knew me, you would know why. Maybe my conversion coming from an actual experience has something to do with it. I could never explain it though, or begin to even rationalise with human logic for anyone. Heck I even spent about 3 years trying to use logic to justifying it, for myself. Finally I concluded though, that battling myself was the only thing that wasn't logical. From the moment I stopped, my experiences have continued to grow me beyond what I could ever have imagined.Shazp.s. Are you Jar?

Actually your right Mike, you make a very good point here: You are most definitely right, about it being dependant on what they choose to share. So I suppose that means the very people I speak to of my experience (the same ones who tell me hard things for my own benefit), actually choose to lie at other times. Given what I know of my relationships with these people, I find that hard to accept. Granted though I do not know. So your point is well noted Mike. My reference to many, was in reference to those I have spoken to, of my experiences. It in no way means I have knowledge of all things, or that others do not know more. Nor does it mean, that the rest of the world would agree with the views expressed by those I have spoken with.Would you be happier if I reworded the statement to read?

quote:

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The people I have spoken with about my experiences, have said that what I have experienced and seen is beyond their ability to comprehend.

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I don't think I said, that my experiences were greater. However I shall look over my posts and check if such was the case, it is not in my nature to be like that though. If I find such is the case I shall certainly retract that, willingly. I would hope never to say my experiences were greater, there is so much beauty in the world, and wonder to experience, that each has its own level of greatness no more or no less than another.As for my experiences, they still stand and I believe in them, regardless of what the opinion of others is.Shaz

Thank You Schrafinator Yes I can see where I mussed up, seriously thank you for pointing it out, particularly given that it is something I often pull others up on too.ShazThis message has been edited by Shaz, 04 January 2005 15:48 AM

So for the record here is my ammended comment. Ammended to: Shaz