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Author | Topic: Tsunami: Please Explain God's Wrathful Intent | |||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Plate tectonics is pretty well-understood; the forces we're talking about here in the Earth's crust are well larger than the scope of any human influence.
The laws of physics are pretty clear - no amount of sinning on our part, nor the eating of forbidden fruit, could possibly have a causal relationship to earthquakes, tsunami, or any other natural disaster.
If the Bible is correct, events like these will become progressivly more frequent and more intense as the Earth starts to sputter and misfire What exactly is in the Earth that you think "misfires"? What mechanism do you believe exists to keep the Earth from wrecking itself with all the earthquakes you seem to believe are stored up, waiting to kill us all? Your analogy fails because we can analyze the engine and discern how the loss of a spark plug is related to the failure of the engine. What you're describing is like removing the hubcaps and blaming that as the source of the engine trouble. They have nothing to do with each other; human sin has nothing to do with the laws of physics and the motion of the Earth's crust.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If all of the universe is a result of a distant "Big Bang", then the mechanics of plate techtonics are solid and predictable. No "if". We observe that the mechanics of plate tectonics are solid and predictable; we observe that the laws of physics seem to be the same, everywhere, at every pont in time.
However, if you move outside the box of the purly natural I haven't seen any reason to, or any evidence that there's more at work in the Earth's crust than we observe.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I didn't think that you would entertain me with looking at it from any other perspective than the strictly natural one. It's not a matter of perspective. It's a matter of what is, and what isn't, in the Earth's crust. What isn't in the Earth's crust is a mechanism that detects human sin in order to cause more or less earthquakes.
I was just trying to give a Biblical perspective answer as to what happened without bringing in crazy religious superstitiousness like a signature in the waves crap. Too late.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I tell you what. I'll live in an opaque, ventilated, soundproof box for a few days. During that time I'll periodically pray to God and read the Bible, and then at other times I'll be gluttonous, or fornicate (sigh... if I must for science), or be sinful in other ways. I'll use a random number generator to determine when and what I do.
Your job is to detect my sin, via any method of your devising, short of direct observation of my activities in the box. Your job is to attempt to detect my sin leaving the box and affecting the Earth's crust or anything else. Since the idea is being presented that sin somehow causes real, physical effects on the Earth, we should be able to detect them on the way.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
God made this world a perfect world, but with the sin of Adam and Eve, the world became imperfect. Through what physical mechanism does human sin affect the makeup of the Earth? Did you read my post about my box experiment? Surely if human sin makes the world imperfect, we should be able to detect this corrupting force as it emanates from particularly sinful places - gay bathhouses, perhaps.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
That post had absolutely nothing to do with the questions I asked.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Just remember, the more natural disasters, catastrophes, and evil occurrences we see, it is only more evidence that for the existence God, not less. Would you agree too that any time disaster is averted, seemingly by coincidence, that that is also evidence for God?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If the situation was reversed, and Muslim missionaries came to relieve tsunami-stricken L.A. and Seattle, how would you feel if they openly asserted their destiny and right to convert homeless, vulnerable Americans to the Islamic faith? Remember too that for the positions to be truly reversed one big Muslim nation would have invaded and would even now be occupying a harmless Christian nation at great cost to it's civilians.
How would you feel about that? Honestly?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If Muslims had enough compassion for "infidels" to sacrifice all the man hours, money, equipment and goods to help another country unable to help themselves that we have done and continue to do for them, I'd say their religion would be worth listening to. You've never heard of the international aid organization "Red Crescent"? You know, the Red Cross of the Muslim world?
Americans tolerate debate and freedom of religion, regardless of whether it is the majority religion of the nation. Do we? Try to get elected to politics as an open atheist. A near majority of Americans support reduced civil liberties for Muslim citizens. I remember on the news not too long ago a town was up in arms because their Muslim community wanted to erect a minaret and hold a call to prayers. Of course, the town's Christian churchbells ring every hour on the hour.
Likely it wouldn't happen, even if it meant millions of deaths. As with 9/11, Indonesian Muslim clerics and their flocks would likely have rather danced in the streets than to come to our rescue. Look how meager the aid from oil rich Muslim nations was for their own brothers......and to think they'd care a snap about helping a contemptable infidel? You've given a number of reasons why you don't think the situation I proposed would happen, but that's not what I asked you to do. What I asked you was, if it happened that way, how would you feel? Honestly? If Islam is the violent religion of darkness you seem to think it is, how would you feel if Muslims came over to our shores to convert Americans in the most stricken and vulnerable of conditions? Answer the question this time. This message has been edited by crashfrog, 01-17-2005 12:41 AM
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